1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,600 Hello, and welcome to the Be Right Back Separation Anxiety Podcast. 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:14,680 Hi, I'm Julie Naismith, dog trainer, author, and full-on separation anxiety geek. 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:19,639 I've helped thousands of dogs overcome separation anxiety with my books, my online programs, 4 00:00:19,639 --> 00:00:24,440 my trainer certification, and my Separation Anxiety Training App. 5 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:29,440 And this podcast is all about sharing my tips and tricks to help you teach your dog how 6 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,759 to be happy at home alone too. 7 00:00:33,759 --> 00:00:38,680 In this episode, I'm talking about choice in separation anxiety training. 8 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:44,520 I'm really passionate that dogs just don't get that much choice in their life. 9 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:51,480 Now, I don't mean you to think that I'm suggesting for one minute that we should let dogs do 10 00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:53,040 everything that they want to. 11 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:59,299 I mean, if that were the case, then my dog Percy would get run over chasing rabbits. 12 00:00:59,299 --> 00:01:04,900 My dog Tex would probably eat himself to death because he would eat and eat and eat 13 00:01:04,900 --> 00:01:07,019 until he couldn't eat anymore. 14 00:01:07,019 --> 00:01:13,900 So, part of being a good pet parent, part of caring for our dogs is making decisions 15 00:01:13,900 --> 00:01:18,540 for them, making decisions that they may not otherwise choose. 16 00:01:18,540 --> 00:01:22,620 But we have to remember that dogs are our prisoners. 17 00:01:22,620 --> 00:01:27,820 Dogs don't get to decide very much in their lives at all, and I know prisoner probably 18 00:01:27,820 --> 00:01:31,180 sounds really harsh, but think about it. 19 00:01:31,180 --> 00:01:35,459 We decide absolutely everything for them. 20 00:01:35,459 --> 00:01:38,580 We decide which home they come to live in. 21 00:01:38,580 --> 00:01:39,580 We bring them home. 22 00:01:39,580 --> 00:01:41,080 We choose them. 23 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,139 They don't choose us. 24 00:01:43,139 --> 00:01:49,419 We choose pretty much what they eat, although with picky eaters, maybe we let them get away 25 00:01:49,419 --> 00:01:52,500 with not eating what we think they should eat. 26 00:01:52,500 --> 00:01:55,300 We decide when they go for walks. 27 00:01:55,300 --> 00:01:57,019 They might nag us a little bit. 28 00:01:57,019 --> 00:02:02,980 They might get on us because they're bored and they need to go outside and play, but 29 00:02:02,980 --> 00:02:06,580 it's pretty much fitting in around our schedule. 30 00:02:06,580 --> 00:02:09,380 And we decide when we want to cuddle them. 31 00:02:09,380 --> 00:02:15,020 Okay, so you've got the ones that nudge you, that come up to you and kind of pester you 32 00:02:15,020 --> 00:02:20,660 until you cuddle them, but we're still making that choice to cuddle them in that moment. 33 00:02:20,660 --> 00:02:24,220 With dogs, lives don't revolve around choice. 34 00:02:24,220 --> 00:02:26,899 It's just not how they are structured. 35 00:02:26,899 --> 00:02:31,020 We keep them in comfortable captivity. 36 00:02:31,020 --> 00:02:37,179 And that's why I think it's so important that whenever we can, we look at the world from 37 00:02:37,179 --> 00:02:44,220 our dog's perspective and see whether it's at all possible that we can add more choice 38 00:02:44,220 --> 00:02:45,220 to their lives. 39 00:02:46,220 --> 00:02:52,619 But what about separation anxiety and in particular separation anxiety training? 40 00:02:52,619 --> 00:02:56,500 Is it possible that we can incorporate choice into that? 41 00:02:56,500 --> 00:03:01,779 What do dogs with separation anxiety think about being left anyway? 42 00:03:01,779 --> 00:03:08,300 Well, it seems quite obvious to us, doesn't it, that dogs who have an anxiety about their 43 00:03:08,300 --> 00:03:10,380 human leaving, they hate it. 44 00:03:10,380 --> 00:03:11,380 They hate it. 45 00:03:11,419 --> 00:03:14,979 We get quite a good read on how they feel about being left. 46 00:03:14,979 --> 00:03:17,940 But what about dogs without separation anxiety? 47 00:03:17,940 --> 00:03:22,259 Well, they aren't voting for their humans to leave. 48 00:03:22,259 --> 00:03:25,940 It's not the number one thing on their list. 49 00:03:25,940 --> 00:03:30,580 So normal dogs don't want to be left alone. 50 00:03:30,580 --> 00:03:36,059 Dogs with separation anxiety hate being left alone, panic at being left. 51 00:03:36,059 --> 00:03:43,020 So when we get dogs over separation anxiety, are we trying to get them to be okay with 52 00:03:43,020 --> 00:03:46,179 something that they actually don't want to do? 53 00:03:46,179 --> 00:03:52,259 Are we trying to get them to accept something that they wouldn't naturally ask for? 54 00:03:52,259 --> 00:03:55,259 Because no dog wants to be left. 55 00:03:55,259 --> 00:04:01,059 The non-anxious dog, if we were to go inside their head, we might hear them say, 56 00:04:01,059 --> 00:04:08,059 Oh, well, you're going out again, I get it, I don't want you to go out, but since you 57 00:04:08,059 --> 00:04:12,619 are going out, I'll just go over here and hang out until you get back. 58 00:04:12,619 --> 00:04:19,779 A dog with separation anxiety, a scared dog who's petrified of being left, they would 59 00:04:19,779 --> 00:04:27,540 say, please don't go, don't go out, I cannot cope when you leave me alone. 60 00:04:27,540 --> 00:04:33,859 But for either category of dog, being alone is not a natural state. 61 00:04:33,859 --> 00:04:42,179 However, us going out and leaving dogs is part and parcel of not necessarily what it 62 00:04:42,179 --> 00:04:47,220 means to be a pet parent, but it is how we relate to dogs. 63 00:04:47,220 --> 00:04:54,299 It's part of the deal, as far as we're concerned, that goes along with having a dog. 64 00:04:54,299 --> 00:05:01,100 But as much as we want to do everything we can for our dogs, we want them to be comfortable, 65 00:05:01,100 --> 00:05:06,739 we want them to be okay, part of the deal is we are going to leave them at times. 66 00:05:06,739 --> 00:05:11,940 And as long as dogs live with us, as long as we think it's ethical to have dogs living 67 00:05:11,940 --> 00:05:17,540 in our homes, as long as we have jobs and medical appointments and social lives, then 68 00:05:17,540 --> 00:05:19,339 we owe it to dogs. 69 00:05:19,339 --> 00:05:24,299 We owe it to dogs to help them cope with this truly unnatural state. 70 00:05:24,299 --> 00:05:30,500 Given that they wouldn't choose it, given that they are not lining up to say, yeah, 71 00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:35,820 go out, please go out, just get out, I don't want you around anymore, I'm so done, I need 72 00:05:35,820 --> 00:05:41,500 some time on my own, I need alone time, now since they are not saying that, given that 73 00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:46,940 they're not choosing to be left, how can we at least incorporate more choice into how 74 00:05:46,940 --> 00:05:49,260 we approach home alone training? 75 00:05:49,260 --> 00:05:54,980 Well, here are seven things that I think we can do that will give our dogs more choice. 76 00:05:54,980 --> 00:05:59,220 And if you're not doing these already, and actually I know that many of the people that 77 00:05:59,220 --> 00:06:04,339 I work with are doing this already, but if you're not doing these seven things already, 78 00:06:04,339 --> 00:06:09,619 do reflect on how you can incorporate them into your separation anxiety training. 79 00:06:09,619 --> 00:06:15,660 The first one, let your dog choose when he wants to train. 80 00:06:15,899 --> 00:06:18,619 Okay, what do I mean by that? 81 00:06:18,619 --> 00:06:23,700 He's not going to be pestering you to do home alone training, because that's not how it 82 00:06:23,700 --> 00:06:24,700 works. 83 00:06:24,700 --> 00:06:28,540 He's going to pester you to throw the ball, or to get a belly scratch, or to open the 84 00:06:28,540 --> 00:06:32,820 treat tin, but he's not going to bundle up to you and say, hey, you know that separation 85 00:06:32,820 --> 00:06:33,820 anxiety training thing? 86 00:06:33,820 --> 00:06:36,140 Could we do that now? 87 00:06:36,140 --> 00:06:42,820 Letting them choose, letting him choose when to train, means being fully aware of whether 88 00:06:42,820 --> 00:06:51,700 he's okay, he's in a state where he's going to be fine and comfortable with the training. 89 00:06:51,700 --> 00:06:58,579 And it means being aware of the times when he says, do you know what, just not today. 90 00:06:58,579 --> 00:07:00,779 And that that's okay. 91 00:07:00,779 --> 00:07:06,779 It's okay for your dog to vote with their feet, to vote with their body language, to 92 00:07:06,779 --> 00:07:12,579 say, no, you know, I know you want me to get comfortable with being alone, but I'm not 93 00:07:13,339 --> 00:07:14,339 really digging the training today. 94 00:07:14,339 --> 00:07:15,339 Can we just skip it? 95 00:07:15,339 --> 00:07:21,019 And if your dog is telling you that, and remember, dogs speak volumes through their body language, 96 00:07:21,019 --> 00:07:26,260 and in particular, the micro-tells, if that's what your dog's saying, let them choose. 97 00:07:26,260 --> 00:07:27,260 It's okay. 98 00:07:27,260 --> 00:07:31,700 And in fact, it's way better for you to choose not to train when your dog is telling you 99 00:07:31,700 --> 00:07:36,940 it's not today, than to try and force through the training. 100 00:07:36,940 --> 00:07:40,299 It's not good for you, and it's not good for your dog. 101 00:07:40,299 --> 00:07:46,619 Number two, when you do start training, when you're starting a training exercise, let your 102 00:07:46,619 --> 00:07:49,579 dog choose when they want to stop. 103 00:07:49,579 --> 00:07:55,779 Okay, so they might not want you to train at all, which is the first point, but when 104 00:07:55,779 --> 00:08:03,739 you get started, be so conscious of what they are saying with their body language. 105 00:08:03,739 --> 00:08:09,579 And if you have any suspicions that your dog isn't handling it, then I want you to 106 00:08:09,579 --> 00:08:14,779 stop, because that is letting your dog choose when to stop. 107 00:08:14,779 --> 00:08:21,660 Lots of people say that if we work on fear-based training, we're forcing dogs to be okay with 108 00:08:21,660 --> 00:08:23,739 their fears. 109 00:08:23,739 --> 00:08:29,700 Often what's happening there is people are missing the signs that their dog isn't comfortable. 110 00:08:29,700 --> 00:08:35,299 But if you look for the signs, you will see when your dog is saying, yeah, okay, I can 111 00:08:35,299 --> 00:08:40,419 do this today, or no, it's too much, I need to stop right now. 112 00:08:40,419 --> 00:08:42,820 And that is giving your dog choice. 113 00:08:42,820 --> 00:08:47,780 So number one and two are letting your dog tell you when it's okay to start the training, 114 00:08:47,780 --> 00:08:51,900 and number two is letting your dog tell you when it's time to stop. 115 00:08:51,900 --> 00:08:54,460 Let them choose. 116 00:08:54,460 --> 00:08:58,460 Doesn't matter what you've got in your goals, it doesn't matter what you've written down 117 00:08:58,460 --> 00:09:02,859 that you want to achieve today, let your dog choose. 118 00:09:02,859 --> 00:09:07,859 Number three, let them choose what they do while you're doing the training. 119 00:09:07,859 --> 00:09:12,419 So remember with separation anxiety training, what we do is gradually expose your dog to 120 00:09:12,419 --> 00:09:18,580 increasing amounts of alone time, but at a pace that's okay with your dog. 121 00:09:18,580 --> 00:09:23,099 And the alone time doesn't increase in any big increments. 122 00:09:23,099 --> 00:09:27,700 It's just little increases that your dog can handle. 123 00:09:27,700 --> 00:09:32,659 And if we ever think it's too much, we go back and we make things easier. 124 00:09:32,659 --> 00:09:33,659 And that is it. 125 00:09:33,659 --> 00:09:35,099 That's the training. 126 00:09:35,099 --> 00:09:39,580 The training isn't about getting your dog to do something, the training is about getting 127 00:09:39,580 --> 00:09:43,219 your dog to feel differently about being left. 128 00:09:43,219 --> 00:09:50,299 So if your dog wants to look out the window and it's fine and that doesn't make him anxious, 129 00:09:50,299 --> 00:09:52,780 let him look out the window. 130 00:09:52,780 --> 00:09:57,580 If looking out the window makes your dog anxious and makes things worse, then you want to probably 131 00:09:58,460 --> 00:10:02,619 certainly block the window, stop your dog seeing outside because that stimulus is too 132 00:10:02,619 --> 00:10:03,619 much for them. 133 00:10:03,619 --> 00:10:09,059 But if your dog wants to sit by the door when you're gone, as long as he's not anxious, 134 00:10:09,059 --> 00:10:14,940 remember he's telling you when he's okay with his body language, but if his body language 135 00:10:14,940 --> 00:10:20,140 is fine, he's not stressed, he's not anxious, he's not upset, but he's just hanging out 136 00:10:20,140 --> 00:10:25,219 by the door because any minute now you're going to come back in, then let him do that. 137 00:10:25,219 --> 00:10:27,179 Let him choose. 138 00:10:27,179 --> 00:10:29,460 Don't make him stay on a bed. 139 00:10:29,460 --> 00:10:31,380 Don't make him stay in a crate. 140 00:10:31,380 --> 00:10:35,099 Don't make him stay in a room he doesn't want to be in. 141 00:10:35,099 --> 00:10:40,859 Just let him choose where he stays or what he does while you do separation anxiety training 142 00:10:40,859 --> 00:10:45,460 and that extends to when you've got the longer durations and you're now going out and you're 143 00:10:45,460 --> 00:10:47,260 doing your stuff, let your dog choose. 144 00:10:47,260 --> 00:10:51,900 If your dog's not doing any harm, if your dog's not getting into stuff, just let them 145 00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:56,020 choose what they want to do and where they want to be. 146 00:10:56,020 --> 00:11:03,460 Now, as someone who owns a Labrador cross, letting him have access to the kitchen or 147 00:11:03,460 --> 00:11:09,739 to food on the counter is not going to happen, so I'm not going to give Tex full choice over 148 00:11:09,739 --> 00:11:12,380 what he does when I'm gone. 149 00:11:12,380 --> 00:11:16,820 So obviously we're going to be sensible about this, we're going to make it safe and we're 150 00:11:16,820 --> 00:11:19,979 going to make sure there aren't things that dogs can get into that they shouldn't get 151 00:11:19,979 --> 00:11:25,900 into, but once we've done all of that, just let them decide where they want to be and 152 00:11:25,900 --> 00:11:27,219 what they're going to do. 153 00:11:27,219 --> 00:11:31,260 Don't make them stay on a bed, don't make them stay in a particular room, give them 154 00:11:31,260 --> 00:11:33,500 choice. 155 00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:39,059 Number four, let your dog greet you when you come in. 156 00:11:39,059 --> 00:11:40,380 Don't ignore your dog. 157 00:11:40,380 --> 00:11:46,820 If you're doing this training, your dog is being brilliant at learning to cope with you 158 00:11:46,820 --> 00:11:52,780 coming and going, learning to cope on his own, but he loves you to bits and when you 159 00:11:52,780 --> 00:11:56,500 come back in, he probably needs you to interact with him. 160 00:11:56,500 --> 00:12:02,340 So give him that choice, give him that choice, allow him to greet you however he wants to 161 00:12:02,340 --> 00:12:03,340 greet you. 162 00:12:03,340 --> 00:12:07,900 Know that it's not him being bad or crazy or anything, it's just he loves you and he 163 00:12:07,900 --> 00:12:12,700 wants to greet you, so give him the choice if he wants to greet you, allow him to do 164 00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:14,820 that, don't deny him that. 165 00:12:14,820 --> 00:12:20,179 Despite what you might read, despite all the advice to the contrary, ignoring your dog 166 00:12:20,179 --> 00:12:22,219 is not going to help one bit. 167 00:12:22,219 --> 00:12:25,780 So give him the choice to come and say hi. 168 00:12:25,780 --> 00:12:33,419 Number five, so outside of training, let him be with you when he needs to be with you. 169 00:12:33,419 --> 00:12:39,380 Let him be in your company, if he's going to learn to be okay when you're gone, then 170 00:12:39,380 --> 00:12:43,539 give him access to you when you're around because that's what he wants. 171 00:12:43,539 --> 00:12:48,419 He loves you more than anything else in the whole wide world, so allow him to be with 172 00:12:48,419 --> 00:12:50,179 you when he needs to be with you. 173 00:12:50,179 --> 00:12:56,260 So if he needs a snuggle, let him do it, it's not going to make his separation anxiety worse. 174 00:12:56,260 --> 00:13:02,780 If he needs a belly rub, give him a belly rub, let him be with you when he needs you. 175 00:13:02,780 --> 00:13:07,700 That's a massive choice that we can allow dogs to make. 176 00:13:07,700 --> 00:13:16,179 Number six, be really mindful that the goals, the hours, the milestones, all those things 177 00:13:16,179 --> 00:13:22,739 that we use to measure separation anxiety progress, they're about us and not them. 178 00:13:22,739 --> 00:13:29,219 Dogs don't care about that, I guarantee you, if you're working on separation anxiety training, 179 00:13:29,219 --> 00:13:35,780 your dog is not saying to himself, I can't wait till I get comfortable with two hours 180 00:13:35,780 --> 00:13:39,500 so that mum can go out for two hours, he's not saying that. 181 00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:44,140 Remember, he'd rather you didn't go, we're helping him cope, we're giving him coping 182 00:13:44,140 --> 00:13:50,460 skills, but he is not looking at the chart, waiting to check off the next big number 183 00:13:50,460 --> 00:13:55,140 and the next big number, that's no dog anywhere. 184 00:13:55,140 --> 00:14:01,299 So when we reframe it and remind ourselves that goals and hours and milestones are about 185 00:14:01,299 --> 00:14:11,500 our agenda, then I think it helps us go at our dog's pace, because when we try to push, 186 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:16,900 when we try to go too quickly, it's because we need that for us, and I know, I know you 187 00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:21,299 need to be able to do stuff, remember I've been there, I've been there with a dog who 188 00:14:21,299 --> 00:14:26,059 I felt as imprisoned as he did, basically, that's how you feel, right, which is actually 189 00:14:26,059 --> 00:14:29,539 quite interesting because they feel that all the time. 190 00:14:29,539 --> 00:14:33,020 We feel like we have no choice when we've got a dog with separation anxiety, they feel 191 00:14:33,020 --> 00:14:37,940 like that all the time, but I've been there and I've wanted to get to two hours, I've 192 00:14:37,940 --> 00:14:43,260 been desperate to get to three hours, I've been so needy of getting more time that I 193 00:14:43,260 --> 00:14:48,340 could do stuff with, so I really understand, and it's important to keep ourselves motivated 194 00:14:48,340 --> 00:14:55,299 and think about the freedom and the things we'll be able to do when we get that bit more 195 00:14:55,299 --> 00:14:59,859 time, when our dogs can handle more alone time, but that is about us, that is about 196 00:14:59,859 --> 00:15:03,299 our needs and not theirs. 197 00:15:03,299 --> 00:15:08,179 And I think it helps take the pressure off if we remind ourselves that the best place 198 00:15:08,179 --> 00:15:14,099 to go at is the one that our dog is choosing, and if that means he's going to go for a few 199 00:15:14,099 --> 00:15:20,780 weeks without making any progress, that's okay because that's his choice and if he chooses 200 00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:27,500 his path through this, he will be more confident, he will have a better foundation, and that's 201 00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:31,419 going to be good for you too. 202 00:15:31,539 --> 00:15:41,099 Number seven, my final point, and probably the biggest one, is keep the training 100% fear-free. 203 00:15:41,099 --> 00:15:47,460 Dogs don't vote for training that makes them scared, no dog would, and what that means 204 00:15:47,460 --> 00:15:53,900 in separation anxiety training is we don't test out dogs to see, hmm, how long could 205 00:15:53,900 --> 00:15:59,020 they go for this time, we don't need to do that because that goes back to point six, 206 00:15:59,020 --> 00:16:04,380 those goals, the hours, the big glamorous milestones, those are about us, they're about 207 00:16:04,380 --> 00:16:06,140 our agenda. 208 00:16:06,140 --> 00:16:10,219 A dog does not want us to test them out in that way. 209 00:16:10,219 --> 00:16:15,979 They don't need us to watch them and start our stopwatch and wait until we see them getting 210 00:16:15,979 --> 00:16:19,299 a little bit anxious, that's not what they want. 211 00:16:19,299 --> 00:16:25,419 They want to feel, if they had any vote in this process of separation anxiety training, 212 00:16:25,419 --> 00:16:29,059 they would just say, okay, alright, I get it, I need to be able to cope on my own, I 213 00:16:29,059 --> 00:16:33,700 can do it, but as long as I don't get scared while I'm training, yeah, that's fine. 214 00:16:33,700 --> 00:16:41,900 And remember, mild fear is fear, it's fear, it's not, it's fear, so let's not try and 215 00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:48,140 downplay it by saying, oh, yeah, well, you know, he did exhibit some mild fear, he was 216 00:16:48,140 --> 00:16:54,940 at his anxiety threshold, he did just tip over, fear is fear. 217 00:16:54,940 --> 00:17:00,419 So just because we think the training is going too slowly, I guarantee you that that 218 00:17:00,419 --> 00:17:06,819 doesn't mean the dog does, in fact, more likely than not, that's exactly the right pace for 219 00:17:06,819 --> 00:17:07,819 that dog. 220 00:17:07,819 --> 00:17:11,780 It's slow for us, but it's right for them. 221 00:17:11,780 --> 00:17:16,699 It's all about slowly, steadily, and at your dog's pace. 222 00:17:16,699 --> 00:17:22,660 And if your dog is ever finding things too difficult, we make things easy again. 223 00:17:22,660 --> 00:17:29,939 But always think about, what can my dog handle, what's the pace that's right for them? 224 00:17:29,939 --> 00:17:35,099 So those are my seven things that will give dogs more choice over a process that he really 225 00:17:35,099 --> 00:17:41,660 doesn't have that much choice about, but that we think is an important process because we 226 00:17:41,660 --> 00:17:48,819 need to do things, we need to live our lives, and we want a dog who can cope with that reality. 227 00:17:48,819 --> 00:17:50,939 Your dog is never going to choose to be alone. 228 00:17:50,939 --> 00:17:55,819 This training is not going to turn him into a convert to, I want to be alone, that is 229 00:17:55,819 --> 00:17:59,420 not a dog's natural state. 230 00:17:59,420 --> 00:18:04,459 But if he were to sign up to this, he would probably sign up to a deal that said, okay, 231 00:18:04,459 --> 00:18:09,739 I know you need to do these things, mom, I know you need to go out, get it, so if you 232 00:18:09,739 --> 00:18:15,939 can help me be okay with that, help me cope with it and not feel scared, then I think 233 00:18:15,939 --> 00:18:18,140 I'd like to give that a try. 234 00:18:18,140 --> 00:18:22,780 And so what you're doing now, the separation anxiety training that you're doing, is helping 235 00:18:22,780 --> 00:18:25,380 him deal with his biggest fear. 236 00:18:25,380 --> 00:18:31,099 For a dog with separation anxiety, being alone is as scary as it gets. 237 00:18:31,099 --> 00:18:37,180 And I promise you, he would absolutely thank you for doing that, as I do. 238 00:18:37,180 --> 00:18:41,660 Alright, good luck with that training and I look forward to catching you soon. 239 00:18:41,660 --> 00:18:44,060 Bye for now. 240 00:18:44,060 --> 00:18:49,859 Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Be Right Back Separation Anxiety Podcast. 241 00:18:49,859 --> 00:18:55,180 If you want to find out more about how I can help you further, head over to julienaysmith.com. 242 00:18:55,180 --> 00:19:00,859 Meanwhile, if you enjoyed listening today, I would love it if you would head over to 243 00:19:00,859 --> 00:19:06,180 wherever you listen to your podcasts and consider rating my show. 244 00:19:06,180 --> 00:19:07,180 Thanks so much. 245 00:19:07,180 --> 00:19:09,339 Good luck with that training and bye for now.