Hello, and welcome to the Be Right Back Separation Anxiety Podcast.
Hi, I'm Julie Naismith, dog trainer, author, and full-on separation anxiety geek.
I've helped thousands of dogs overcome separation anxiety with my books, my online programs,
my trainer certification, and my Separation Anxiety Training App.
And this podcast is all about sharing my tips and tricks
to help you teach your dog how to be happy at home alone too.
If you spend any time on TikTok, and I know I try not to,
because even just thinking about this dog training advice that goes on on TikTok makes my blood boil,
but if you do spend any time on TikTok, you will undoubtedly have come across trainers
who sell their services in terms of board and train.
So what do I mean by that?
Well, they're trainers who say, you know what?
Your dog comes and lives with me for three weeks.
Usually it's about three weeks.
And your dog with separation anxiety, I will transform.
So your dog will come to me with separation anxiety.
It will stay with me.
I will train your dog.
And when you've come to pick up your dog and take your dog home after the three weeks,
you will have a brand new dog, a dog that is fine on its own
and isn't going to destroy or whatever it was doing.
So maybe you haven't come across that, in which case that's really good news.
But unfortunately, there are a lot of trainers who know nothing about separation anxiety,
who are guaranteeing results if only you just drop off your dog with separation anxiety with them
and then come back later to find you've got a cured dog.
So it's nonsense.
It doesn't work like that.
It clearly shows when somebody is advertising that service
and particularly when they're guaranteeing or even if they're just talking about it,
it shows 100% that they have no clue about separation anxiety.
Or if they do know about separation anxiety,
they know exactly what they're doing and they know that they are not treating separation anxiety
with kind, ethical, humane, dog-centric training methods.
And it just really gets to me because not only are they doing something which can be incredibly risky,
and I'm going to talk about that in this podcast,
but they're promising you false hope.
And best-case scenario, your dog comes back and is just a little bit traumatized.
But worst-case scenario, and I've seen this too many times, your dog comes back broken.
So let me explain the six reasons why
board and train is just a really, really horrendous, horrific idea for dogs with separation anxiety.
And when I go through these six reasons,
I am primarily talking about board and train outfits that are focused on using punitive measures,
aversive measures.
They might call themselves balanced,
but really they are focused on being open to using things that are cruel and hurtful and scary and painful for a dog.
There are some board and train outfits, not as many as there could be,
who are force-free.
So I will be talking about force-free board and train,
because that also has some limitations when it comes to separation anxiety too.
But for the most part in this podcast, I'm going to be talking about the classic board and train setup,
which is all about suppressing behavior in dogs, not changing how they feel.
But first off, number one, let's talk about the fact that separation anxiety is rarely, if ever,
I'm going to say like never, fixed in just two to three weeks.
So the premise and the promise is you take your dog to a board and train,
and they will say within X weeks your dog's going to be over this.
But separation anxiety is just way, way more complicated than teaching a dog to sit or walk nicely on a leash.
When you address separation anxiety, you are getting to the cause of the dog's behavior,
the root cause being the dog's emotion.
You're not teaching him a new thing.
You're not teaching him a new trick or a new life skill.
So if anybody tells you they can fix your dog's separation anxiety in a matter of weeks,
take that as a huge red flag.
And coming back to that point about the difference between the majority of board and trains
that have traditionally used aversive and punishment-based methods,
and the more modern ones that are force-free,
I've noticed that the modern board and train outfits really don't do the promise around separation anxiety.
Why? Because for the most part, they understand the science of how we change a dog's emotion,
and they understand that you don't get dogs over fear in three weeks
by doing what board and train aversive trainers promise.
So, yeah, if anybody's guaranteeing you your dog's going to get over this in three weeks, red flag.
Turn around. Do not give them your money.
Reason number two, dogs don't generalize well.
So we think that when a dog is over separation anxiety, he's just, he's better, he's over it.
Or when he's improving, he's, you know, he's getting there.
He's showing progress. He's showing promise.
But dogs don't work like that.
If you change one thing in a dog's world or in a setup, a training setup or any context,
if you just change one thing, you change everything.
Dogs don't assess the world around them in the way that we do.
They think of the world or they evaluate the world in terms of pictures.
So think about playing snap.
If you change one thing on a snap card, they don't match, right?
So you can't claim snap.
And that's the way dogs look at the world.
So we might think a man with a black hat and a man with a white hat, they're the same thing, pretty much.
All that's changed is the color of the hat.
But to some dogs, just changing the hat from white to black can fundamentally change it.
There are two different things, right?
They don't snap.
And when you think about location, location is a really big source of information to dogs.
So when dogs are learning, they're always looking to pick up clues and tip-offs from the world around them.
And location and context of where stuff happens is massive to dogs.
It sends a lot of information to them.
So when a dog is learning to get over its fears,
we're helping their brain to change the association from this thing used to scare me to this thing is okay in that location, in that context.
Because more often than not, when we change the location, we haven't changed the association.
We've got a brand new association, in fact.
So dogs aren't learning to be okay in lots of different locations just by working on one location.
So this means that when you send your dog away for separation anxiety training, it's going to be of no benefit when he comes back home.
I say no. It might be some benefit.
If you're working with a board and training force-free trainer and they do decide to do, say, something like my door-of-the-board training,
then it may have some benefit.
But it's going to be marginal.
And even if you sent your dog away for six months, not that you're going to do that, but let's imagine that you did.
For whatever reason, I don't know, you're going to travel the world.
Even if your dog gets over separation anxiety in a new house, chances are when your dog comes back to your home,
he's not going to feel safe in the same way because he's learned to feel safe.
He's learned to feel okay with being left in a different location.
In general, with different locations, you tend to have to do the training in each location.
There is definitely some bleed in terms of the learning seems to transfer over.
It does kind of know the home-alone game. They kind of get what's going on.
So we don't see necessarily them always, always going back to entirely going back to square one.
But it definitely isn't the same progress.
So, yes, sending them away and expecting them to be okay when they get back to you,
even if they are okay when they're in another location,
it's a really big ask that they're going to be okay when they come back to you.
Number three.
So thinking about those aversive TikTok trainers who are talking about board and train,
one thing you need to be really clear on is that they might well,
no, almost certainly they'll leave your dog alone in their board and train facility.
They won't do what you're doing right now.
They won't guarantee that your dog isn't going over threshold in the way that you are so protective of that now.
So you need to look them in the eyes.
If you're even thinking about going to a board and train facility, look them in the eyes and ask them,
how long are you going to leave my dog on his own?
I wouldn't say, are you going to leave my dog on his own?
Ask them how long?
They're slightly different, but the answer that you'll get will be more truthful.
Because if you ask, are you going to leave my dog alone?
That's a tip off to the person you're asking that.
Oh, wait a minute. Yeah, she's one of those crazy people who doesn't want to leave her dog.
OK, but if you say how long? Well, are they going to say not at all?
Chances are what they'll do is they'll minimize that.
They'll say, you know, yeah, every now and again.
If you know that they're an aversive space operation, that they are balanced or that they use punishment,
well, balance trainers use punishment.
Then if they say, you know what? No, we're not going to leave your dog alone for a minute.
I would be really suspicious of that.
So ask them how they're going to manage that.
It's really important that you know exactly what's going to happen 24-7 for your dog.
You know, you spent so much time and emotion.
You've invested so much money and effort into managing your dog's absences.
Don't let somebody else ruin it for you.
You know that not being left alone is just a crucial part of getting a dog over separation anxiety.
And the rule is it's even more important, actually, than when you go to a new context,
because new contexts are extra scary.
And it's true that many dogs who go to a boarding environment can get really stressed out just by being in that new environment.
So imagine how that's going to be for a dog with separation anxiety.
If you are having a conversation with the board and train operation, as I said, look them in the eye
and get them to swear that your dog will not be left alone or whatever they have to do.
Get them to sign it. Get them to show you.
I still, like I say, I'd still be super, super suspicious.
If I know that they are a balanced trainer, if they're an aversive trainer, I would still be really suspicious.
So, yeah. And that's why I'm saying as a general theme throughout this podcast,
I really, really, really would counsel you to just not go down the board and train route.
And another point under this in terms of whether they'll be left alone in a board and train facility,
do ask them what type of crate they're going to use.
Again, don't ask them if they're going to crate, ask them what type of crate.
If you're lucky enough to find a force free board and train facility, they'll be up front with you.
They'll talk about the crate type. They'll be open to you saying, oh, my dog doesn't do one in the crate.
They will be fine with that. But your board and trainer versus balanced trainer will crate.
They just will crate your dog. And in fact, crating your dog until your dog can cope no more is one of the ways,
one of the methods they purport to use for addressing separation anxiety.
And you don't want, you just don't want your dog to be locked in a crate for three weeks while you're away.
I know you don't. So, number four, as I said at the start, traditionally board and train has meant punishment based training.
And to be clear, when you hear the words balanced trainer, just know that they are open to using force, fear, harmful, hurtful, scary punishment.
OK, so balance sounds nice, doesn't it? We all want to live. We want work life balance.
We want to be a balanced diet. So balanced dog training, surely that's a good thing.
No, it just means that I am open as a balanced trainer.
If I, you know, I'm not a balanced trainer, but a balanced trainer would say they are open to using rewards based training,
which is the only way to train, but also things that scare and hurt your dog.
Right. That's like that's not balance. That's not balance.
That's just weasley words for I'm open to doing really horrible things to your dog.
But not all board and train professionals do use punishment. I want to say that.
So look out for force free ones. They will be really upfront about the methods you use.
Ask them what happens when your dog gets it wrong. Ask them what training methods they use.
And if they're using like high level kind of waffly words that mean nothing and they aren't specific about how they train.
Yeah, that's a red flag. And if you do happen, unfortunately,
to get in a conversation with a balanced or an aversive board and train operation,
if they say to you it's the only or it's the best way to train or your breed needs to be trained that way or,
you know, certain behaviors have to be trained that way or it's dangerous for the dog if they don't use shock collars and things like that.
It's just absolute nonsense. So there are way better ways to train.
And all of the evidence points to the fact that not only is it more humane and more ethical to treat dogs with kindness when we train,
it's a better training method, too. Now, I'll often hear that people take their dogs to board and train
and they'll say he came back from board and training. He was he was a changed dog.
I say often too often, but it doesn't happen frequently.
But I have in the course of my many years of working with dogs with separation anxiety,
I have unfortunately heard people say that they sent their dog off to some of the cruelest board and train outfits that you can imagine.
And they are adamant that their dog comes back. You can't see my air quotes, but I'm doing air quotes.
Good. If your dog had two weeks of punishment based training, locked in a crate, freaking out, isolated, absolutely panicking the whole time,
then what you're seeing isn't a calm, happy dog who suddenly realized that being alone is just fine.
What you're seeing is a dog who has shut down, a dog who's stopped offering any behavior because when they do, when they do anything, bad things happen.
So when a dog or any animal gets caught in that situation, when I do stuff, bad things happen to me.
But I don't know why, because I'm doing things that make sense to me.
But then bad things happen and then they just go, it's just easier not to do anything.
Treating fear with fear is not the way to fix separation anxiety.
So if anybody says to you their dog came back, a changed dog, be really suspicious about what they mean,
because chances are they're talking about a dog who just gave up, isn't any happier being left, but is just too scared to behave, to offer any behavior.
Okay, number five, there aren't any guarantees in dog training.
There just aren't. I mean, you might hear me talk about the training method that we use, desensitization,
keeping dogs sub-threshold and how the research shows that it's the best chance that your dog has got of getting over separation anxiety.
But that's not the same as saying to you, if you do this training, you train five times a week and you do it for six months,
I guarantee you, you'll have a dog that you can leave, because that's not how behavior change works.
It doesn't work with people and it doesn't work with dogs.
All we can do is put our best foot forward, follow the science and do the best we can.
And hope, hope isn't a strategy, as they say, but hope that we get the outcome we want,
which is a dog who gets over separation anxiety. And it's more than hope, because we're doing the things we need to,
the necessary, but not necessarily always sufficient, but definitely the necessary things of training and not leaving our dogs for longer than they can cope with.
Force-free trainers don't give you guarantees, though.
You will never have heard me say that if you follow my training method, I guarantee that you're going to get a dog that you can leave.
I never, ever say that. It's not ethical and it's not right.
Reputable trainers don't offer guarantees. Unethical ones do.
So if you are ever given a guarantee that your dog will become a different dog as a result of training, just walk away.
It's a huge red flag that the trainer either isn't up to date with scientific training methods or that they are using aversives to suppress your dog's behavior, not change how your dog feels.
And so do you think, should you just skip the board and train after listening to me talk about this?
Maybe you started listening to this podcast thinking, I've heard people talk about this and it seems like a really good idea.
How are you feeling about it now? Do you think you should just skip the board and train if you've got a dog with separation anxiety?
Well, despite how negative I may have been about it, I'm going to say no, not necessarily.
You don't necessarily have to abandon the idea of board and train.
Find a really good force-free board and train operation.
Don't send away your dog to them to work on their separation anxiety, but you could definitely send him away for things like jumping up at people, reactivity to other dogs, maybe some play issues that he has with other dogs, just kind of basic manners around the house stuff.
Board and train could be really effective for things like that, but not separation anxiety.
And I can't emphasise enough, make sure that they are a force-free board and train facility.
Oh, and side note, it doesn't have to be a big outfit or a facility. A really good force-free trainer might just be taking in one or two dogs into their home.
Another reason why I say don't necessarily say no to board and train is because it could actually be a really nice break for you.
I know you love your dog to bits, and I know that they're the centre of your world.
For many of us, our lives end up revolving around our dogs with separation anxiety, which can be great, but it can also just be so, well, make us feel like we are really trapped.
We don't have options because we're always having to think about our gorgeous little dog who we can't leave, but we sacrifice things in our life too.
So if you find a trainer who's force-free and does board and train and is totally committed to not leaving your dog for the period that they're with them
and won't crate, unless your dog's okay with crating, then you end up getting a couple of weeks of freedom.
So maybe you do it while you go on vacation because it solves two problems then.
You can take the vacation because now you know your dog is being really well cared for by somebody who completely gets the whole situation,
but also if you've got a few of those behaviour issues that you want to work on, not separation anxiety,
then you've got somebody on hand looking after your dog but also working on those things at the same time.
And so if you have reached the conclusion that, and I hope you have, balance trainers versus trainers doing board and training,
not a good idea, but you're open to the idea of maybe board and train with the right trainer, force-free, and who isn't going to leave your dog,
here's what I want you to ask them. Ask them what training methods they use.
And you're going to hear the words I've been using all the way through this podcast. Force-free, positive reinforcement, humane, ethical, science-based,
using foods, treats, rewards, fun and play. If you hear any words like balanced, correction, leadership, dominance,
if you hear anybody who's telling you that you shouldn't be letting your dog on the sofa or that you should be ignoring your dog,
if your trainers are saying anything like that, then no, that's a big no-no. Don't send your dog away to them.
Don't use them for any form of training. Second question to ask, what exactly is going to happen when my dog gets it right?
So when you're training my dog and you ask them to do something, you're working on a particular training exercise,
if my dog gets it right, what happens? Well, a force-free trainer is going to tell you that they'll get cookies
or they'll get a belly rub or they'll get to play with their favourite toy. A balanced trainer, an aversive trainer might say that
because balanced trainers are open to using positive reinforcement, but because they're also open to using punishment,
aversive, punitive methods, when you ask the question, what happens when my dog gets it wrong in training?
Well, a force-free trainer is just going to say that they will change the training so that your dog can give the right answer.
Because sometimes we ask dogs to do things and they're a bit too hard for our dogs. What they won't say is they will use a device.
They will correct. They will leash-pop. They won't use words like that. They won't say that they will shock the dog.
They won't say that they will just show the dog some leadership at that point. So be really, really on it
and ask those questions about how the training works. And then ask about what training plan they have in mind for your dog.
So remember, you're sending your dog away not for separation anxiety, but you've bought into the concept.
If you can find a great force-free trainer, you might actually use it as an opportunity to take a little break from your dog.
But if they're working on jumping up or loose leash walking, just ask to see the training plan,
because a really good force-free trainer will have a plan in mind.
And then finally, even though they're not going there for the trainer to work on separation anxiety,
do have a really in-depth conversation about how you're going to work around,
how's the trainer going to work around your dog's need to be with somebody at all times.
Talk to them about the plan that they have for that.
So if you get good answers to all of these questions, then I would say go ahead with it.
If you have any doubts whatsoever, move on and find someone else.
I find that most people with a dog with separation anxiety don't actually use Board and Train.
And I can totally understand it.
I would never have done it because it gets really complicated when it comes to the whole managing absences
while somebody else is looking after your dog for three weeks.
And so a really good alternative, if you want to look for a force-free trainer to help you out with some training,
you know, you might just not have time. You're doing separation anxiety training.
You're doing all the managing absence stuff, and it's just draining.
Well, a really nice alternative to that is day training.
Board and Train isn't the right environment to do separation anxiety training.
But, you know, a day trainer could do some of that.
If your dog has a fear of being alone rather than the fear of being away from you,
then someone who comes in and does a bit of decentralization, maybe a bit of door-to-door, could actually benefit.
And it doesn't even have to be separation anxiety training.
They could just come in and work on the things that are on your list of to-dos.
I really need to work on my dog pulling me everywhere on the walks or not coming back to me at the park.
Well, that stuff maybe doesn't get done because you're so focused on separation anxiety.
But a great day trainer who comes to you while you're, say, at work or otherwise occupied,
a day trainer can work on that sort of stuff.
And I do have a reservation about a day trainer who comes in and does separation anxiety training for you.
As nice as it seems, and we're not saying they couldn't help you in some way,
I have a couple of big reservations.
You need to do a lot of repetitions with separation anxiety training, don't you?
You know that now.
And if you haven't started separation anxiety training, it's probably one of the things that maybe is putting you off.
There's, you know, there's work to it.
It's not the most fun training and it does take a lot of effort.
So you're going to have to book an awful lot of sessions with a day trainer, which isn't going to be cheap, right?
And second, even if you do decide to invest, you still might find,
you remember going back to that whole context thing that we talked about at the start,
you still might find that your dog is okay when your trainer does the training in your house,
but he then doesn't do well when you leave.
So massive pros and cons to even a day trainer.
But I think it's a really nice combination to think about.
If you've got the money, if you're overwhelmed with separation anxiety training,
to the extent that you're not doing any of the other stuff that you want to do with your dog
and you're prioritizing separation anxiety training, day training could really help you out.
When you look for a trainer, do look for someone who really understands separation anxiety training.
And my certified SA Pro trainers are the people to go for.
They're all experts in the method that I teach.
They work remotely so that if you want to do separation anxiety training with you, they can do it remotely.
Some of them offer day training to local trainers.
And you can find my trainers listed at julienaismer.com forward slash find a trainer.
Thank you so much for listening to this podcast.
Whatever you decide to do in terms of board and train,
I hope that this has helped you go into that whole decision with much more information with your eyes wide open.
I'll catch you on the next one. Bye for now.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Be Right Back separation anxiety podcast.
If you want to find out more about how I can help you further, head over to julienaismer.com.
Meanwhile, if you enjoyed listening today,
I would love it if you would head over to wherever you listen to your podcast and consider rating my show.
Thanks so much. Good luck with that training and bye for now.
Thank you.