So you've been working away on desensitization because you know, you've been told that that's
the way to get your dog over separation anxiety but somehow it's just not working.
You feel like your dog is just never going to get there.
So at what point do you say, heck this is just not working for me and my dog.
At what point do you say that and just decide it's time to stop trying desensitization and
give something else a go.
Well in this week's podcast episode I want to talk to you all about this big decision.
Whether and how you know it's time to stop gradual exposure, to stop desensitization
and to give something else a go.
Hello and welcome to the Be Right Back separation anxiety podcast.
Hi I'm Julie Naismith, dog trainer, author and full on separation anxiety geek.
I've helped thousands of dogs overcome separation anxiety with my books, my online programs,
my trainer certification and my separation anxiety training app.
And this podcast is all about sharing my tips and tricks to help you teach your dog
how to be happy at home alone too.
So desensitization is the tried and trusted method for separation anxiety.
It's not just that I say that because that's what I teach and that's what I advise everyone
who works with me to do.
I mean I teach pet parents how to do it with their dogs.
I teach trainers how to help pet parents with their dogs using desensitization.
So yeah I am pretty wedded to it.
But I didn't just wake up one day and think oh that sounds interesting maybe we should
give that a go.
It's not like this is some wonky weird notion from out there.
The reason I say desensitization is tried and trusted is because when you look at the
research and there's lots of research about separation anxiety by the way.
When you look at the research it's really conclusive that this is as far as we can tell
the best chance that a dog has of overcoming his fear of being left.
And it's not just in the dog world that desensitization works.
When we look at how humans overcome fears desensitization is at the very heart of the
preferred method for most therapists.
Now do I need to just stop and say what is this desensitization thing?
I will.
I think you might already know but let me not assume.
So desensitization is a process of essentially exposing our dogs to the things that they're
scared of.
I know that sounds weird right?
We're trying to help them not feel scared and so what we do is we expose them to something
that they're scared of.
It's a form of therapy called exposure therapy and exposure therapy is that.
It's about taking a stimulus that a human or a dog has an issue with, has a phobia to,
a fear of and exposing the subject to the feared stimulus.
And there are a range of ways of doing it.
At one end there's the sink or swim approach which is called flooding where essentially
we just expose the subject to the scared thing, the scary stimulus at full intensity, like
to the max.
And flooding is sometimes used in human therapy and it sometimes does result in good outcomes.
But it's really problematic, it's problematic because it doesn't always result in a good
outcome.
It can make people worse, it can make a subject worse and it's a really horrible process to
go through.
So when human therapists decide to use flooding they do it with consent, they do it with informed
consent.
They tell their patient that it could be awful, it will be awful because it's a full blown
exposure to the thing that petrifies them.
They explain the risks and they explain the upsides.
And when it works, well that's a great outcome, that's fabulous and the patient may well forget
how horrific it was, but when it works it works in tandem with a therapist being there
to explore how the patient feels after their full blown exposure.
So if we think about whether we could use that with a dog, well that gets really difficult
doesn't it because we can't ask for informed consent.
We could ask the human, the pet parent for informed consent, but that's not the same
as asking the dog whether they want to go through this horrible process.
And then also the bit that's missing is this rational discussion at the end, this, well
you went through that but you survived didn't you, woohoo, so you can't do that with a dog,
you can't have that conversation.
And so instead of opting for flooding, which is inhumane and unethical when it comes to
dogs, we go to the other end of the exposure therapy continuum and that's gradual exposure.
And gradual exposure and desensitisation, you can kind of think of them as being the
same things.
In the dog training world we tend to say desensitisation, in the human therapy world we tend to say
gradual exposure, but the concept is the same, it's taking a small amount of the thing
that the patient or the subject, the dog in our case, is worried about and you gradually
increase the intensity.
The intensity starts so low that there's no fear and you increase the intensity as long
as there is no fear.
And it works, it does work, it works for dogs and it works for humans.
But there are some downsides and if you are working with a dog with separation anxiety
you might already be well aware of the downsides.
But it takes time.
The biggest complaint that most people have is just how long it takes, especially with
a dog.
Why are dog and human brains different?
Well they're actually pretty similar but it's much harder, well it's impossible, to have
the type of relationship, if you're a behaviour consultant or a trainer, you don't have the
type of relationship with a dog that a therapist has with a patient.
We are gradually exposing the dog to alone time, to the scared stimulus, but we're not
having an engaging conversation about how does that feel and how did you respond and
do you think you could have responded differently?
All we've got, the only tool that we've got, is the exposure.
Now lots of studies say that it's actually all about the exposure.
The exposure to the scared stimulus matters.
But we definitely can't engage the dog in conversations about how the process is going,
could we do it differently, can we improve it and so on.
So it can be a lengthy process.
Getting a dog over something that it really fears isn't days, it's not even weeks.
For most dogs we're talking months, months and months.
And that's hard, if you've got a dog that you can't leave and your life is suspended,
you have no freedom, you have to think about every single thing you do because you can't
leave your dog, you're always thinking, how do I get cover for my dog, what can I do,
I can't leave the dog, I'm going to have to say no to that, that's life, right, with a
dog with separation anxiety.
And so dealing with that while at the same time doing this training, which is energy
sapping, even just doing the training takes time and it takes energy, and you have to
do it for a long time.
So no wonder lots of people start to feel like, oh I just can't do this, this just isn't
for me.
And that, like I say, is typically the biggest complaint I hear from people, that it is just
taking too long.
The reason it takes too long, well too long, yeah it is too long, but the reason why it
takes so long, why are we talking months, why are we talking such an extended period
of time, is because we're trying to create a brand new association in your dog's brain
and we're fighting against the old association, so we're trying to create new neural pathways
in your dog's brain and that's not an instant thing.
Not only are we trying to create these new neural pathways, but dogs have, just like
us, fairly lazy brains.
And so it's easier for a dog and it's easier for us to always revert to old negative thinking,
it's just easier, the old negative neural pathways are nicely grooved and it's easier
to revert to them.
And so as we're doing this gradual exposure training, it's really common for dogs, actually
and for us, to revert to how we used to think, to revert to those old associations.
So it takes time, it's up and down, and so it becomes an emotional rollercoaster journey
that's drawn out too.
No wonder we all end up at some point feeling exhausted, and by the way, there isn't anybody
who's now got a dog over separation anxiety, whose dog has recovered as a result of using
desensitisation, there's not a single person who hasn't felt like giving up, who hasn't
felt exhausted, who hasn't felt like this is never going to work for them.
But they continue.
How about you though?
Maybe you're thinking, no, I just can't, I just cannot do this anymore, I can't cope
with the ups and downs, I can't cope with how long it's taking, I actually really don't
like the training either.
And that bit I really understand, because it's not like trick training, is it?
It's not like having fun with your dog at agility, or doing scent work, it's labour,
and it is pretty dull, let's be honest, I mean actually a big part of separation anxiety
training is being dull, it's about making you leaving dull, so it's not something most
of us get up in the morning and say, I can't wait to do, I can't wait to do separation
anxiety training today.
No wonder then, you have moments where you think, I know this is the right thing to do,
I am done.
So how do you know?
How do you know if it's not just a bad period that you're going through, but it's time for
you to give up?
Well, before you do, I need you to ask some questions of yourself.
Question number one.
When you're training, could you be missing something, anything?
Is it possible that you are missing some signs of anxiety in your dog?
Is it possible that you're missing some subtle micro-tells, where your dog is actually trying
to communicate that they aren't having a good time?
Because remember, when we're doing desensitisation training, we're changing the association from,
I hate this, this is scary, to, yeah, oh yeah, I can do this.
So if the dog is anxious when we're training, we're not changing that response.
That means if we miss things, we could be doing the training very diligently, checking
them off.
If you're in my separation anxiety heroes group, you'll be ticking off your exercises
in the app.
You'll be looking at how many times you trained and thinking, well, you know, at some point
I'm going to make some progress, aren't I?
But if you're not, maybe it's because you're training and your dog is actually anxious,
so you don't get the progress you need because you're just missing some things.
So when was the last time you really, really, really studied a video of your dog?
Are you recording your sessions?
Are you looking at them, slowing them down, looking for signs that your dog might be anxious?
Because if you're not, I don't want you to give up on desensitization training before
you do that.
Okay?
So ask yourself, am I missing something?
And if you think you might be, study video of your dog.
Make sure you record your sessions.
Question number two to ask yourself before you give up, could you be misinterpreting
something?
So maybe you are spotting things, but maybe that two lip licks that your dog does would
be fine in one dog, but actually in your dog means your dog is anxious.
When did you last have some help deciding that?
Now in an ideal world, I'd love it if all of you could work with trainers, but I know
that's not possible for many of you.
It would be amazing if you could all work with one of my certified Separation Anxiety
Pro trainers and have them look at your dog's body language.
You record the video and get them to look at it, but I know that's not possible for
many, many of you.
An alternative, of course, is to join my Separation Anxiety Heroes Club, and that's a much more
affordable option for many people, but not for everybody.
So if you're thinking, okay, Julie, that's great.
Yeah, I think I might be misinterpreting something, but how am I going to get that help?
Well, jump into my free Separation Anxiety Support Group.
There are plenty of pet parents in there who either have been through what you're going
through and have got their dogs over separation anxiety, or they're going through it right
now.
They're going through the training.
Have a look at videos they post for peer review.
See if they are saying things about their dog that you could recognize in your dog.
But just really importantly, think about, am I misinterpreting something, and am I missing
stuff?
Okay, question number three.
Before you give up, I do want you to ask all these questions.
So question number three.
Are you being too impatient?
You're like, oh, Julie, stop it, stop, stop, stop.
Of course I'm impatient because I want to get my life back.
I know, I know, and I remember that feeling so badly when Percy was a dog who, even if
I thought about leaving, would start getting upset.
I just thought we are never, ever, ever, ever going to have any even semblance of normal
life again.
But we got there.
However, I felt impatient too because I didn't, I wanted it now and I wanted to see progress
and I wanted to feel like there was light at the end of the tunnel.
And so when we feel like that, often what we do is we put pressure on ourselves because
we focus on, you know, the two hours and the three hours.
And that's really important, of course it is, because your whole aim of doing this separation
anxiety training is you want to get your dog to be okay for a reasonable amount of time
that allows you to do something.
But human nature is such that when we focus on a big, lofty, ambitious goal like that,
we often feel overwhelmed.
Not only do we feel overwhelmed, but we feel way away from it.
We feel like we're not making progress because think about it.
If you're climbing a mountain, you're at the bottom of the mountain and maybe you're looking
up and you're climbing a 10,000 foot mountain and you're maybe five foot or six foot.
So you, compared to 10,000 feet, that's a huge gulf.
You are insignificant compared to that 10,000 feet mountain.
And that's really where you are with separation anxiety training.
What you do today, the 30 seconds, the one minute and 10 seconds, yeah, that's teeny
compared to the two or three hours.
And you can feel like that is just nothing.
It's nothing because three hours is what matters and you're on a minute.
But just as when you stand at the bottom of the mountain, as tiny as you are, to get to
the top, you take tiny steps.
And that's what you need to do.
You focus on the step in front of you and then the step in front of that.
And just put one foot in front of another.
I mean, literally one foot in front of another with separation anxiety training, right?
Because you're doing the steps.
You're going out the door and you're coming back.
The whole purpose of thinking that way is that you focus on the process.
You focus on, what can I do to do this really well?
Not, oh, how do I get to three hours?
But what can I do to make sure that in this training session today, my dog has a really
good experience of being left?
Because every single time your dog has a positive experience of being left, you've just taken
one step closer to the top of the mountain.
So focus on that exercise.
Focus on today.
If you've just done today's exercise, focus on tomorrow.
Don't think any further ahead than that.
Just try and get every session to mean your dog has had an association that home alone
is fine.
Home alone is fine.
All those teeny, teeny, teeny, tiny steps that will add up to get you to the three hours.
Also, don't do the maths on it.
So if you're at 10 minutes and it's taking you weeks or months to get to 10 minutes,
I don't want you to do the maths on it.
So don't get your calculator out and say, okay, if I'm at 10 minutes after two months,
then do, do, do.
And you put the numbers in your calculator and you go, oh my goodness, I'm going to be
80 before my dog gets to two hours.
Don't do the maths because it's not like that.
The first few minutes, the lower minutes, take a long time.
You spend way more time on those because the beginning of the change is the biggest challenge
for your dog.
So the beginning, the creating the new association, the starting to create the new association,
that's absolutely the hardest part of the training for your dog.
So don't do the maths.
It won't take you as long to get to 10 minutes as it does take you to get to two hours.
Question number four.
Have you got your dog on meds?
And if you have, are they working?
Have you got the right medication?
Have you got the right medication at the right dosage?
Have you recently spoken to your vet or vet behaviourist about the meds or are you just
kind of like, well, we did it, we got the dog on meds and that's kind of it, not doing
anything else.
I'm talking about anxiety medication.
Anxiety medication can make a huge difference to training progress for lots and lots of
dogs.
I know it's a difficult decision for many of you.
I was the least, I was the most reluctant person when it came to medicating Percy.
I didn't want to do it, no way, not my dog.
And when we eventually tried medication for Percy, I only did it to prove the vet wrong.
Seriously, I was like, no, it's not going to work.
It's a ridiculous idea.
I mean, like who, who ever puts their dog on anxiety medication?
Luckily it's a bit more common now, but 10 years ago, not so much.
And I was like, no way, not my dog.
All right, okay, we'll give it a go because you're wrong, this isn't going to make a difference
to him.
Well, it did.
It made a huge difference to him.
And it improved his quality of life because he was a less stressed, happier, fuller, more
joyful version of himself.
And people always worry, don't they, that, well, your dog's going to end up as a zombie.
Your dog's not going to have the same personality.
You actually get the true personality of your dog coming out.
Think about it because if your dog is constantly stressed, is that your dog's true personality?
You're not going to get a dog who's sedated and out of it and doesn't love the world.
If you see any signs like that, when your dog's on anxiety medication, straight back
to your vet because your dog should love all the things that he's always loved.
He should enjoy his food, he should enjoy life, he should actually have an even greater
love of life because now life isn't stressing him out.
And if you are okay with meds, you've had that conversation, your dog is on meds.
If you think they're not working, keep talking to your vet because it may be you need a different
medication at a different dosage or you might need a combination of medication.
So don't give up on the medication just yet.
My final question to you to ask yourself is, what are you going to do instead?
So ask yourself, if I give up on all this, what am I going to do instead?
You see, I'm guessing that you've tried, you're working on decentralization because you've
tried everything else.
You've tried all the things on Amazon, you've watched the YouTube videos, you've flicked
through a few TikTok videos and you're like, well, yeah, kind of tried those, that's not
worked.
So, heavy heart, I'll try this thing called decentralization.
I've heard it takes a long time, but I guess I'm out of options.
I'm going to give it a go.
And when you started it, it made sense, didn't it?
You're just like, oh, wait a minute, of course, yes, this is how people get over phobias.
And I definitely read lots of success stories about it working for other dogs.
So I'm going to give this a go.
So if you've tried everything else already, what's plan B or C or D?
I mean, you're already suspending absences.
You're already finding ways not to leave your dog.
You've tried all the other things.
So if you give up on this, what's left?
Now, interestingly, I often work with people who say, or before I work with people, they'll
say to me, I'm not even sure I want to try decentralization because I've tried everything
else, because I'm so worried that if decentralization doesn't work, that's it for me.
That's it for me and my dog.
And if that's you, by the way, then I get that.
But is that a truly valid reason for not starting decentralization?
And is it a valid reason for giving up?
Because no, you don't want to give up just because it feels hopeless.
That's actually when you should be most resilient and really trying to dig in, even though you're
exhausted, even though you just think, I can't face this anymore.
So if you're feeling like you've really hit rock bottom with this training and you think
you've tried everything else, you've got to lean in.
I keep mentioning the groups that I offer, whether it's my paid Separation Anxiety Heroes
group or the Facebook group, Separation Anxiety Support, Dog Separation Anxiety Support.
Lean into other people who felt as low as you feel right now about decentralization
and ask them, how did you get over the feeling that you just can't do this anymore and you
want to stop?
Ask people whose dogs are now over this.
How did they keep going?
Because I'm just really worried that you haven't got an alternative.
I mean, the alternative is to do nothing.
And by the way, if that's OK, I know that might sound weird because I'm a big advocate
of helping dogs overcome separation anxiety and doing this training and doing it well.
But I also think that it is OK eventually to come to peace with not doing it.
I want you, though, to have asked yourself all the questions in this podcast episode
before you get there.
All right.
We kind of have a deal there that I will be totally fine with you saying, not for me.
I am done.
But I do need you to do a few more things before you get there.
Because remember, just because something is slow, just because something is hard,
that doesn't mean to say it's the wrong thing.
I'm not saying keep going regardless.
Like, if your progress is really sticky, you keep having massive ups and downs, you're
just not making any, any gains on the time, on the duration that you're working to.
Go back to my initial questions about asking yourself, are you missing anything?
Asking yourself, am I misinterpreting anything?
So in other words, don't just keep trying to make this work without at least looking
at why it might not be working for you.
So can you improve it?
Can you polish what you're doing?
Can you get better at the process?
I'm not saying keep going regardless.
I do want you to wonder, is there something that I could do differently?
And by different, I don't mean a completely different training method.
I mean, do this better and do it differently.
Because if you go through that analysis and you decide, yeah, you know what, I've really
done everything that Julie asked me to do in this podcast, then I think you can hand
on heart say, I've really given this a chance.
And we can be too quick to change.
We can be too quick to change when things aren't working.
We can be too quick to change and give up, to change to something else or give up what
we're trying before we've examined why what we're doing might not be working.
So before you reach the terminal point of saying, this is not for me, you need to challenge
yourself.
You need to check that you're doing the right things.
And only then I think it's OK to say, no, it's not for me.
It's not for me.
And then I will fully, fully support your decision to give up.
Do I have a different suggestion for you in terms of training?
I wish I did and I wish I had that magic wand and I wish I had that quick fix, but I don't.
But equally, I don't want you to keep banging your head against a brick wall and I don't
want this training to just make you miserable.
So ultimately, having gone through all of these questions, having asked yourself all
of these things and challenged yourself, if you decide that's it and it's not for you,
that's OK.
At least, you know, you'll be giving up having given it your absolute best shot.
However, you know, I don't want you to do that.
I do want to help you through this.
So if you're not in any of my groups so far, please, please jump into those groups.
Lean in, ask for support, and let's see if we can't make this work for you.
Do we have a deal?
All right.
Thank you for listening.
I'll catch you on the next one.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Be Right Back Separation Anxiety podcast.
If you want to find out more about how I can help you further,
head over to julienaysmith.com.
Meanwhile, if you enjoyed listening today, I would love it if you would head over
to wherever you listen to your podcast and consider rating my show.
Thanks so much.
Good luck with that training and bye for now.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai