All About Dogs and Pain With Canine Rehab Expert Sue Van Evra

Hello, and welcome to the Be Right Back Separation Anxiety Podcast.

Hi, I'm Julie Naismith, dog trainer, author, and full-on separation anxiety geek.

I've helped thousands of dogs overcome separation anxiety with my books, my online programs,

my trainer certification, and my Separation Anxiety Training App.

And this podcast is all about sharing my tips and tricks to help you teach your dog how

to be happy at home alone, too.

Sue, so it's absolutely wonderful to have you on this podcast, and I know that people

are going to love what you have to say.

Sue has been working with my dog.

How long have you been working with my dog, Sue?

It must be about five years now, mustn't it?

I think four or five years, yep.

And I can speak firsthand to the change that Sue has created in my dog, so I'm a massive

advocate for Sue and all that she does, and I'm really excited that she's tapping with

us today.

Aw, thanks, Julie.

Now, obviously, Sue, we first started working with you when Percy was in severe pain as

a result of his back problem, and looking back in hindsight, we were completely caught

out by that.

We didn't know that he had this back problem, and it's always made me think, what could

I have done to identify that pain before it got so acute that we ended up rushing him

to the emergency vet?

So, do you have any thoughts about what we can do as owners to be more aware and identify

pain in our dogs?

Well, I will say, don't fault yourself for missing signs, because I think that dogs and

animals in general go to great lengths to hide their pain, so until it's really bad,

sometimes it's very subtle, but one of the things I remember, or I like to teach dog

owners is that the greatest indicator of pain is when there is an absence of normal activity,

so if a dog normally plays with their toys all the time and they're not wanting to play

anymore, or normally they jump up on the couch and snuggle with the family, but they're

retreating behind furniture, or usually they are fine to go upstairs, they start avoiding

having to go up the stairs, then whenever their normal activity, they stop doing, that's

the most common sign.

I think more often the signs are subtle, and sometimes the signs are more obvious,

so obvious signs would be things like limping, lifting a limb, like crying or whimpering,

bunny hopping, things like that, but sometimes if you look for things that are a little bit

more subtle, and I'll just give you some examples, if the dog seems like they're down,

they're a little bit almost depressed, if they have a decreased appetite, if they're

moving slower, just things like that.

So, a lot of it sounds like knowing, it's the change, isn't it, that's what you're saying,

so some of these might be really big changes, suddenly, like you say, no more snuggles on

the sofa, but I think also some of them might be changes that are a bit more subtle, because

as you say, dogs do try to hide this from us, but it's looking for that change, right?

Yes, and then sometimes you can narrow down where the problem might be, depending on what

they're avoiding, so for example, if a dog is avoiding going upstairs, or jumping up

onto the couch, or going uphill, in a kind of general sense, it's usually a hind end

problem, like a lower back or a hind end problem, if they're avoiding going downstairs, downhill,

jumping down, more often than not it's a front end problem, and then for specific body areas,

like for example, if a dog has pain in their neck, they might hold their head lower, they

might start resisting looking up to take a treat, if you're offering them a treat, and

things like that, for specific body areas.

But at that point, it's, you know, people might have worked out that it's pain, but

I guess we as owners don't necessarily need to be the ones to work out exactly what's

going on, it's just kind of, oh, you know, there's something off here, this isn't normal

for my dog, there's definitely something not right here.

Yes, that's the main thing, so I think just what you're saying, if you see a change, even

though that can be related to, you know, other things, if, say, another, you've lost another

dog in the family, there would be a reason why they would seem down, but if there's no

other reason, then a change in their behaviour is often an indicator, yes.

Yeah, that's really helpful.

And then, so say that we've noticed this, we've either noticed a really big change or

something subtle, at what point should we be thinking about seeking medical help for

pain?

We think it's pain, should we try and do something ourselves, or should we be seeking medical

help?

Well, I think the medical help would be best right away, because if you're just trying

to manage the actual pain without knowing the source, then, I mean, you can always take

medication, some supplements help with pain, but you really want to get down to the bottom

of what is the cause of the pain, just for the future and knowing, you know, how to avoid

future problems and stuff like that.

So I think getting a really good, thorough assessment right away is important.

And actually, that's prompted something that I just wanted to go into as well, because

you've worked on this with Percy and with India.

What tools do you have at your disposal, and the vet, so the whole medical team, let's

say, for identifying the source of the pain?

Because I know that from conversations with you, sometimes it's not always obvious.

So what, you know, what can you and the rest of the medical team do to work out, to pinpoint

the pain?

Well, we go through an assessment from head to tail, and as my background is physiotherapy,

so I'm a human physiotherapist, and I've taken training, as you know, to work with

dogs in canine rehabilitation.

So just as we would in human physiotherapy, we can do tests with our hands to check different

ligaments anywhere in the body.

So in the spine, in the peripheral joints, the hips, the shoulders, the knees, the wrists.

And we can palpate different muscles, we can test nerves, we can test the discs between

the vertebrae, we can, you know, we do movement tests, we can, we have things like stance

analyzers that are mats with four quadrants.

So the dog stands on the mat, we get an indication of how much weight they're putting through

each limb.

Oh, that's interesting.

Yeah, when they're standing, you know, it might not be obvious that they're offloading

one limb, but on the stance analyzer, it's more obvious, so that's a helpful tool.

So once we can pinpoint if there's, you know, a ligament that's been torn, or a muscle that's

been strained, or a joint in the spine, or any kind of arthritic changes in the joints,

we can usually, I mean, you can't be 100% sure with an x-ray, but we can tell when the

joint changes, when they start to get bone spurs and stuff.

So whatever we find, then the types of tools we use for treatment would be things like

modalities, so modalities are things like ultrasound and laser, which are sound waves

and light waves to help reduce inflammation and pain.

We do massage, we do manual therapy, which is varying degrees of joint movements and

mobilization to decrease pain.

And then we also include a huge home exercise program component, so the exercises in the

early stages of, you know, of an injury or a painful episode of arthritis would be kind

of focused on things that help stretch the muscles that attach to a joint that's sore

to take, you know, reduce pain.

Then we sort of make the exercises more geared towards, you know, returning the dog to their

usual activities.

So if a dog is super active and they love jumping and running, we have to kind of progressively

make the exercises more difficult so the body can kind of prepare to go back to the regular

activity.

Oh, there's so much goodness in that.

So a couple of things I wanted to go back on.

So one thing was just about all the different ways that you come at it in terms of trying

to pinpoint it.

And I forgot to mention that you've also worked with our dog techs who have body handling

issues, which is like, you know, physiotherapy, body handling issues.

Yeah, not great.

It's compatible.

Yeah.

And one thing that was really interesting was your diagnostic questions, I guess.

They would seem to me, you were asking about, you know, what happens when he does this movement?

And a lot of the movement that was causing Texas problems was happening when he was not

in an exam room, when he was out and about.

But I thought your questions were really clever.

You know, you sent me off with a list of questions that, you know, when he was moving around,

I would be looking for, does it happen when he does this and what about when he does that?

And I thought that was just really, yeah, clever and insightful in terms of, OK, these

are the things that I think we can rule out.

And if it happens when he does this movement, maybe it could be that.

So that was just reflecting.

So that was really interesting how you even gave an insight into a dog that couldn't be

handled.

It was fascinating to watch.

Yeah, actually, that's an important point, because like in human physiotherapy, of course,

we can ask the patient, when do you get the pain?

What causes the pain?

Which movements?

And of course, we can ask the dog owner, but the dog owners don't always have the benefit

of seeing the cause and effect, because sometimes a dog will be running at the dog park and

they're 100% fine.

Actually, this just happened with my dog, Jane, last weekend, my golden retriever.

We took her on a run and she was running in the river and she was running across some

rocks and we did about 10 kilometers in total.

So five down to the river, five back.

On the way back from the river, no pain or limping whatsoever.

And then after she rested, got up, she was limping on her right front limb.

So when I assessed her, she strained one of the joints in her paw.

But where I'm going with this is that sometimes it's not a clear cause and effect.

So then we do have to give you the questions to see if you can start to notice if there's

correlation.

So it makes narrowing down the source and the cause of the problem easier.

Well, what was brilliant with Tex was you gave me all these questions and these things

to look for and he was having this intermittent problem.

So it wasn't, you know, it's not like I had a bunch of data because it wasn't happening

all the time.

It's not like, oh, he walks upstairs and he, you know, he limps when he walks upstairs.

To give people context, it was when he was playing fetch.

I know there's gonna be a lot of people listening to this saying, why on earth do you let your

dog play fetch?

Because it's the happiest part of his day.

But it wasn't, it was very specific and it didn't happen all the time and he'd pull up

and he'd pull up for about 30 seconds and then he'd be okay.

It wasn't happening every time.

But where I'm going with this is that, Sue, what you did with helping me with those questions,

you actually helped me identify that it was a very, very specific movement in the whole

process of him chasing, turning, stopping, catching that was causing the problem.

And once I changed that and eliminated that movement, so I changed the way I threw the

ball for him and how, where he went to go and get the ball, he now doesn't have the

problem.

So now he can chase the ball without having the pain because you helped me identify what

specific thing was causing it and it was, yeah, it was amazing.

So, you know, we've now got a dog who can do what he wants to do again, but just as

long as we do things slightly differently, so.

Yeah.

Well, I'm glad he's feeling better.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

It doesn't happen now because now I've worked out that one thing that he does, if we throw

it so that movement doesn't happen, he just, yeah, he can just run and chase and he loves

it.

So thank you for that.

Yeah.

Oh, you're very welcome.

And that's why when you were asking, you know, should you try and just manage the pain or

should you seek medical attention right away?

It's just so important to narrow down the source and the cause and the mechanism of

injury.

It's like, yeah, so it's if you have that information, then you know what you need to

do to go forward to, you know, resolve the problem.

Yeah.

And what's been wonderful with him is that it kept recurring.

So this is, you know, when we first chatted about this, you know, as I said, it kept going

on for a couple of years.

And what we would do is we'd stop the ballplay completely for, you know, a month, two months,

you know, which is not his most fun thing to do, even if he's sniffing.

It's not like chasing down a ball and going to look for it in a bush.

But now we've realized that it wasn't rest, it was one thing that was causing it.

Now his quality of life has definitely improved because instead of months and months of leash

walk that didn't actually help him get any better, instead we've stopped doing the thing

that made him sore, so thank you.

But anyway, so you can tell everybody why I love Sue so much because she's changed the

quality of life for all of my dogs.

And then just something else you touched upon as well, which is getting back to what they

love doing.

And I also want to talk to you about the run you did with Jane, but I'm going to come on

to that in a second.

But yeah, getting them back into the things they love, because that's always been, again,

personalizing it.

But, you know, with Percy, he's not the sort of dog that just wants to, you know, go on

a sniffle hurry.

He does like to run.

He does like to gamble about.

And you've helped us get him back to that.

So what words of advice do you have for people who are, who have got a dog that's got a problem,

a pain, you know, it's related to their muscles or their bones, and they want to get them

back to maybe not what they were doing before, but more normal activities?

I would say, like, seeking help and advice, like seeking a rehab professional that knows

how and when to progress the program, because the tendency is, you know, once the limp is

gone, it's understandable that you would feel that it was okay to go back and start running.

But in terms of healing, for example, if someone sprains, say, sprains a tendon or strains

a tendon in their shoulder, once the initial inflammation and pain subsides, and they're

not limping, but the tendon is going through a healing process, there's new little tendon

fibers of collagen that are being formed, and they're fragile.

If they start to do too much too fast, then what happens is they damage the tissue that's

trying to heal, and they go a step back.

So, you'll keep doing kind of two steps forward, one step back, but if you gradually, first

you start with static exercises, which are, you know, kind of stationary stretches and

just activating the muscles, then you do a little bit more movement, you make those harder.

And this is over, it's partly related to the time frame, like over a couple weeks, they

could progress to each phase, but it's also partly related to how well the dog is going

through each phase.

So, if they have a setback, it might take a bit longer, but anyways, then the next kind

of phase would be doing dynamic, really like bounding and power exercises that really ready

that tendon for the kind of stress it has to take when the dog goes back to running

and jumping.

So, to make that answer shorter, I would say just to seek advice and help to know how to

progress through those stages, because, you know, it's so easy to see that they're not

limping anymore and be inclined to say, okay, good to go back to the dog park, but the risk

is really high of re-injury if they don't go through the steps.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, it's the same with us and it makes so much sense.

And I have to say that we are so motivated with doing, both in Indy, in particular, physio

exercises that we do, I would say it's unusual for us to miss a night in the week.

So, I would say on average, we do six days a week, which is so great because we want

their quality of life to, you know, we want to help and aid and improve their quality

of life or at least maintain it.

But if you talk to my physio, I do, the compliance for my exercise is really, really low.

So, it's funny, I'm way more motivated for my dogs than I am for me, I should reflect

on that because I see...

You are definitely not the only one.

I hear that a lot.

Is that right?

That's really funny.

Yes.

Yeah.

That is funny.

But, yeah, so I should note, I should, the difference it's made to them, I should, you

know, note to self.

If I did it, imagine the difference it would make to me.

But anyway, you know, another thing, though, that I do see some people do, on the suggestion

sometimes of some professionals, but also just, you know, because they've read it on

the internet, is they go the other way.

So, they don't return their dogs to the previous activity.

They go to the other extreme.

They're not rushing back to it.

What they're saying is, okay, no, you've had a sore back or you've got that hip problem

or that, you know, whatever, no more running for you.

No more running and definitely no more chasing of anything or playing with dogs because,

you know, that can be unpredictable on the joints.

And that makes me sad because dogs, as much as they like to sniff around the neighborhood,

dogs like to run.

And I don't know.

I just feel like if we can do the right thing by them and help them, like you say, work

on the things that will help them get back to that, I think that's what we need to be

thinking about.

So, yeah.

So, you know, do you have any thoughts on the overreaction of no more, no, that's it.

Okay.

Just walk.

Well, this is also a place where a rehab professional can help because it comes down to a lot of

education on what to expect the outcome to be with rehab.

Because there are times when, for example, if a dog sprains the shoulder ligaments and

the shoulder is really unstable, they can get back to a certain level, but they may

never, they just might not be able to compete in agility anymore or like that's an extreme

example.

Or if a dog, you know how like as we get older ourselves and our bodies, you know, say you've

run a few marathons, your body at some point just won't tolerate running ultra marathons

or marathons.

You know, you do have to kind of to phase back a little bit.

And as dogs get older, sometimes we do have to change our expectations about what the

goal return to function could or should be.

But I think going to the far extreme when they are able to get back to full function

is just a matter of education.

So it's getting that help and knowing what they can get back to safely.

In the human world, I mean, you know, people downhill ski race, they have an ACL tear,

they have surgery, they get back to downhill ski racing because that's what they love.

And so if your dog loves an activity so much, you just kind of weigh the risks and their

quality of life and how much they love it versus the risk.

So it's a constant kind of balance there.

Yeah.

And modifying.

It's like you were saying about running because I know you're a big runner.

But my running days are so done.

And for now, I love to mountain bike and it gives me a great workout, a great mental workout

too.

But it's not, you know, 20 years ago, I was doing a lot more running.

So, yeah, it's that I still I found something else that gives me the same sort of enjoyment,

but doesn't stress my joints in the same way.

I'm sure.

Yeah.

And I like you say as well about working with a professional, I feel like it's almost like

when you work with a professional who can help you rehab your dog, it's kind of a confidence

thing.

So it's knowing what pace to go at, what's, you know, rather than getting really frightened

and never doing anything or getting really silly and just ignoring everything and get

back to it.

A good specialist is going to give you the confidence to go at the right pace for your

dog, ensuring, you know, minimizing pain, but managing quality of life too.

And that's what you've done with our dogs, definitely.

I think, yeah, like you say, knowing when not to go to the next step or knowing that

it's OK to go to the next step.

It's all a matter of that education.

And, you know, sometimes I will rehabilitate a dog through an ACL, anterior cruciate ligament

tear, surgery, all the rehab.

They have equal strength on both hind limbs.

They have equal weight distribution.

They have really quick reflexes.

They are 100% ready to get back to regular activity.

And sometimes the owners are leery about that.

But as you say, it's sort of just knowing that given them the information and the education

that it's OK to go back to doing it now they're safe.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I totally get that.

That makes so much sense.

Side note, Sue and I live in a town that's known for being full of people who are super

active.

She mentions downhill ski races because we live in a town where, you know, there are

lots of downhill ski races.

Yeah.

Lots of Olympians.

Yeah.

You move to Canmore thinking that you're quite fit and then everybody else is an Olympic

champion.

But anyway, the point there, though, is I've heard human physiotherapists in town say that

they have the problem that they tell people, yeah, don't go back to activity for another

four weeks.

And they know that people will get there back in two weeks.

They're always bearing that in mind.

They know people will just ignore that.

But you're a massive runner and you have been all your life, I think, haven't you?

And you've run long distances.

But you run with Jane and she seems to really enjoy it.

Jane, you're a golden retriever.

Yes.

And but as she gets older, I will slowly, you know, as she gets older.

I won't phase her out probably completely, but I definitely will shorten her runs.

I'll make sure the terrain isn't pavement and I'll give her lots of breaks.

And we do a lot of run walking.

Yeah.

So I will really watch how she reacts and responds to runs.

If she seems, you know, stiff where she didn't before or if she's really, really fatigued

after a run, then, yeah, I'll follow her as she gets older.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like all of us, really.

That's right.

Yeah.

So we're talking about getting dogs back to not necessarily normal, but, you know, moving

them from a place where they're not functioning because of pain to where they they are back

to a more functioning state.

But can dogs ever be pain free?

I've got an agenda when I ask this because, you know, at my ripe old age now, I have some

pain that comes on when I do the wrong thing.

If I go for a run, my hip really hurts.

So I don't go for a run.

But then I have like, you know, just the niggles and the ongoing aches and pains that are kind

of like almost with me and sometimes are a bit worse and sometimes a bit better.

So I often think about that with my dogs.

You know, they might be totally OK and I might notice no difference in their behavior, but

they might still have a few aches and pains.

So can we get dogs pain free?

Is it some dogs?

Is it younger dogs?

What's your viewpoint on whether we can get dogs to be pain free?

I think like for an acute injury, if it's managed properly, if it's something new, they

can be rehabilitated and become pain free.

If they have longer term problems like osteoarthritis or like degenerative neurological conditions

that change the way they move.

Like the goal wouldn't, with rehab, wouldn't necessarily be to get them back to being pain

free because it's unrealistic with arthritis.

And many of the people listening probably may have some arthritis and you kind of know

that sometimes you have good days, sometimes you have bad days and the pain kind of goes

up and down.

And when dogs get arthritis, what we try to do is build up the muscles around the joints

to stabilize and support the arthritic joints as best as possible.

The goal with rehab is really return to function.

So we decide what that function is and we try to get the pain to a manageable level

or zero, as close to zero as possible.

But I would say it's not always possible to get to absolute zero if there's osteoarthritis

in the mix.

But you know, as long as they're, like what you said about we might redefine what functioning,

you know, what that means because it might not be what they were doing before.

Yes.

It's not having them, you know, stay in the house and not do anything.

I do, my view of what's okay and what's not has completely changed since working with

you Sue.

Like, you know, when my dogs jump off anything now, you see me, you see me when I'm at the

park, when I wink.

Yes, I see that.

Yes, I see that.

Though I can see the twist, don't do it.

But it's interesting how you can change things up to get rid of those things, which you took

for granted when they're three years old, but when they're 12, not so good, change things

up for them.

I don't need them to jump off and on and off things now, I'll pick them up as much as I

can and we'll make things lower and so they don't have to jump.

Because the upside of doing all that is that they still get to have fun and run about at

the park.

So we can do all the other things.

Yes, I mean, the fact that your dogs have been so active for so long, I mean, that in

itself because they're in such good condition makes their outcome better.

Like, you know, faster recovery when they have an episode of pain.

But that's the same with us, isn't it?

Yes.

I mean, I think that's the case that many years ago when you had, say, something like

osteoarthritis, your advice was not to do any, you know, to minimize your exercise.

Whereas now I think we know that moving is actually really good for muscles and joints.

Yes.

And it just, that's again where the help to know how much and how often and what kind

of movement can help, you know, maintain function and reduce pain as well.

Yes, all about that quality of life thing, which is what we all want for our dogs.

And we were talking a bit there about, you know, those kind of, those acute situations.

So there's been an injury.

And I, in my world, I'm working with lots of dogs who have had an injury.

Maybe it's an ACL surgery or actually it might have been not related to an injury.

Maybe they've had just a spay neuter and they come back from the vets and they are,

the owner will be told to crate the dog.

Which I totally get because you don't want stitches being ripped out.

You don't want a newly operated joint to have, you know, weight bearing on it.

So I get all of that.

But the problem that my people face, the people I work with face, is that a dog who's crate-phobic,

which is a lot of dogs with separation anxiety, will lose it in a crate.

So they're not rested.

They're not calm.

They can be leaping up at the crate.

They can be throwing themselves at the crate to get out.

You know, even with a substantial injury or, you know, after a surgery.

So any advice for people with those dogs for whom crates don't mean rest,

they mean panic and escape?

Yeah, I have seen that where dogs have actually injured themselves post-operatively,

caused damage to the surgical repair from panicking in a crate

and it's tragic because the goal, of course, as you say,

is to prevent damage for a surgical repair, protect an injured area,

avoid, you know, and prevent further injury.

So the key is, as long as the dog is well supervised,

inside the crate, I mean, the crate always has to be big enough for them

to be able to stand, move around, lie back down.

So as long as they're really well supervised outside of a crate

and, you know, you have your eyes on them,

you can manage their activity and just make sure they're quiet.

If they're more comfortable and they're not going to panic,

then absolutely, I would say that would be a better choice than crate rest.

For those dogs, yeah.

And for some dogs, it's not an issue.

But yeah, I think so too.

And I know that, yeah, because I think what I've said to people is,

you know, go back and explain to your vet what's going to happen

because your vet isn't really asking you to crate your dog.

Your vet is asking you to stop damage being done.

And the easiest way to do that for most dogs is to get crate rest going.

But if your vet knows that your dog is going to explode in a crate

and try and escape, your vet isn't going to say crate rest.

I'm sure they'll talk to you about what they really want you to do

and how you can then do it without a crate.

Yes, that's an important conversation because it's just the rest,

whether it's in the crate or under supervision, that's important.

It doesn't necessarily have to be confined in a small space

to be able to be safe for sure.

Yeah, and I've certainly got a crate phobic dog

who's had to have crate rest.

And obviously we didn't do that because I know how he is in a crate.

And it is a bit of work. It's labour.

You're constantly, where are they? Where are they?

But by that, I mean, you look up from your laptop

and you just want to check that they're by your side

because you don't have them wandering around.

So you have to be aware of them every single minute.

And so it is hard work, but you definitely can do it.

And if it prevents further injury, it's worth it.

Exactly. And I know some vets as well will also talk about

sometimes medication can help as well.

So we don't want our dogs to be zombies,

but sometimes actually there's a role for a slightly sedated dog

who is doing itself harm, trying to rip that stitches.

So, yeah, I think that's really helpful.

And it's a good reminder that we can talk to our vets about this.

If we're at all worried about crate rest being worse,

we should talk to our vets.

Yeah, I think that the whole idea,

like the important part of crate rest is the rest.

So whether it's in or out of a crate,

as long as they're not jumping and running

and chewing at their sutures and stuff,

then that's all we want.

That's our goal.

Yeah.

This is such a good conversation.

This is like so many pieces,

like just like golden bits of advice in here for people.

I love it.

So I know we've really talked about pain today

because it's such a hot topic for people.

Do you have any final thoughts that you'd like to leave people with?

I would say just to remember that dogs will actively try to hide pain.

And sometimes, like I have several dog owners that have said to me,

well, I know they're not in pain because they're not yelping or crying

or anything like that.

And just to remember that it doesn't have to be an obvious sign like that.

Like any change in behavior,

any absence of normal behavior can be a sign of pain.

If they've always done something and they're avoiding it,

there usually is a reason.

Even if it's something small,

like they're comfortable lying on the right side

and comfortable lying on the left side.

If now they're only wanting to be on the right side,

well, that's even enough of a change that, you know,

just to trigger you thinking it might be good to get checked out.

And that might seem extreme,

but honestly it's surprising how well they do hiding pain.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're not like us.

They're not wailing over a blistered big toe.

What you're saying is there could be major stuff going on

with only slight changes being apparent in them.

Yes.

They're very stoic.

Yeah.

So we shouldn't ever hesitate to go and get that checked out.

Yeah.

Oh, that's great.

Actually, even if you go in and you have a rehab assessment,

you get a full screen of all the ligaments and, you know,

joints and everything,

it doesn't harm to get a baseline measurement.

And sometimes we can pick up glitches,

like say sometimes we see a dog

and the position of their pelvis is altered,

it's a little bit rotated,

and it's not necessarily painful,

but it can lead to a painful problem down the road

if it isn't rectified.

So even if you're not sure, pain or not pain,

sometimes going for an assessment isn't a bad idea anyways.

I love what you said about baseline.

And people who've listened to my other podcast

will know that I'm all about working out what's normal for your dog.

So when we're talking about dogs with separation anxiety,

when they're left at home alone,

and they're displaying certain behaviors,

the question I want to ask is,

well, do they do this at other times too?

What's normal?

What do you see your dog doing all the other times?

So, Rae, I think people will really understand that whole point

that let's just, you know, see where we are now.

That also will give us a sense of any changes or more of a sense.

Yep.

Or potentially find glitches that can affect development in younger dogs

and affect, you know, cause compensations and injuries further down the road.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So good.

Well, unfortunately, most people can't come and work with you

because this is very much, for the most part,

a very in-person service, isn't it?

Yes.

But those of you lucky enough to live in Camelot or Calgary

can work with Sue.

But also, there are plenty of canine rehab specialists,

and depending on the country that you're in,

they'll be called different things,

maybe canine physios in some countries and so on.

And people can seek out a specialist.

They can seek out advice from their vet and maybe get referred.

But I think the overall message is,

if you have any, any hint that there's something going on,

go and get it checked out.

Sue, it's been brilliant chatting to you today.

I know people are going to love this.

And I think you're going to make a difference to people listening to this.

Oh, I hope so.

Yeah, I think you're going to help a lot of people and a lot of dogs with this.

So, thank you so much.

Oh, you're welcome.

Thank you for inviting me.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode

of the Be Right Back Separation Anxiety Podcast.

If you want to find out more about how I can help you further,

head over to julienaysmith.com.

Meanwhile, if you enjoyed listening today,

I would love it if you would head over to wherever you listen to your podcasts

and consider rating my show.

Thanks so much.

Good luck with that training and bye for now.