What to Do When Your Dog Can't Be Alone, But Is Dog and People Reactive Too – with Jennifer Pratt

If you've got a dog you can't leave but your dog can't be around strange people either

They can't

Go to a daycare. They can't go to a dog sitter. And what about if it can't be around

other dogs or other people

How on earth do you manage absences them?

Well, if this is you and this sounds like your dog, I don't want you to lose hope

Because in this episode I'm talking to Jennifer Pratt

Jennifer's an expert in separation anxiety and in

dogs who are fearful or aggressive when they're out and about and Jennifer and I have a

fantastic conversation

About how you can help a dog who hates being alone, but can't be out in the world either

If you're feeling at all hopeless about this situation

Do tune in I think you're going to love what Jennifer has to say

Hello and welcome to the Be Right Back separation anxiety podcast

Hi, I'm Julie Naismith, dog trainer, author and full-on separation anxiety geek

I've helped thousands of dogs overcome separation anxiety with my book, my online programs, my trainer

Certification and my separation anxiety training app and this podcast is all about sharing my tips and tricks to help you

teach your dog how to be happy at home alone, too

Jen, I'm so excited about today's podcast and the reason I'm so excited is because, well, it's always fabulous talking to you

So very selfishly, I'm really going to enjoy this but I get asked about this topic so often

In fact, it came up as recently as a couple of days ago in my group and I got really excited and said

Well, just wait, we've got a podcast coming out about this. So we're going to talk about dogs who have this

dual challenge of, on the one hand, they can't be left because they've got separation anxiety

but on the other hand, they really struggle out in the world because they react to tons of things

And so that's what we're going to talk about today, right?

Yes, absolutely

And just, I mean, the word reactivity gets banded around all the time and it can mean different things to different people

So should we just talk about what we mean by reactivity for the purpose of today's conversation on this podcast?

Yeah, yeah

I honestly rarely use it with my clients because it is sort of such a muddy kind of word

But if I was asked what exactly does it mean, I would say that it's a dog that, when you're out and about or in your normal daily world

overreacts to a typical situation

that most other dogs, you know, they might notice them, they might be like, Ooh, what was that?

Taking it back, but they can bounce back from it quite easily and just take it in stride

Our dogs that are reactive, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that they have any aggressive tendencies

It's just that they are kind of tighter wound, shall I say

Yeah

Yeah, and they just have a harder time coping

So a reactive dog could be a dog that does enjoy other dogs or people

But they get frustrated that they can't get to them as soon as they would like

But we could also have a dog that's being reactive because they're asking for space

And they're like, please don't come any closer

This is what I've learned helps to keep that distance

Yeah, and that could be distance from dogs, people, skateboards

Yeah

Anything really, right?

Absolutely, yeah

And I'm really glad you defined that word because I'm like you, I struggle with it

I struggle with it because it doesn't really describe anything

We can't use that word and then all describe the same thing

You know, you use that term, different people mean different things by it

So I'm really glad that you operationalize that for us and describe what it means when we call, use this very general term

So thank you for doing that

But, you know, we come across this a lot, don't we?

Because you work in separation anxiety all the time

And you work with dogs with, I love what you said, highly, highly wound, tightly wound

Tightly wound, yeah

So you work with these dogs all the time

And you just, every now and again, you get a dog that is so tightly wound

That they really can't cope with any dogs or any people

And basically, at the same time, can't be left

So let's talk about those challenges

When you're presented with that dog, how do you deal with that?

How do you approach that with guardians?

Yeah, so I was in the situation myself

So I found that when, my dog was fearful of unfamiliar people

She loved dogs, but fearful of unfamiliar people

And we had just moved to a new city

That was over an hour and a half away from our old one

And for me, she developed separation anxiety

And the most difficult thing to do was that absent suspension

It wasn't because I couldn't rearrange my schedule

Which I could do some of that

But I just, I could never leave the house

Because we didn't know anybody

And so she didn't have familiarity built up with anybody that she felt comfortable with

And I didn't feel comfortable even with just anybody either

So I found that for that, that was the most difficult part for me

But if you have a dog who's reactive

Maybe to dogs, but is dog social

You know, you might have a hard time finding somebody

Who can confidently take your dog for walks or outings

I might be not really comfortable taking them to doggy daycare

I mean, it's so hard because there's so many people who mean well

But just don't have the skills to help our dogs

Even in the management scenario aspect

Oh yeah, it's so tough

I've got one of each

Well, Percy used to have separation anxiety

But I was lucky because he was okay with other people

He's great with other dogs

But my other dog Tex has got all the other things

And I often think, oh my goodness

If Tex had separation anxiety

And I had to get people to come into the house maybe

You know, dog walkers to pick him up

Or he has to go into, I mean, he couldn't do daycare

He just couldn't do daycare

I just think, oh my goodness

I got lucky because I had the different problems in the different dogs

But you, no, you had both going on

But it's, you know, and we see this

It's not uncommon

So I just want to explain to people

Who maybe don't always follow the podcast

And are maybe tuning in

Because again, talking about this topic of reactivity

And people are getting very excited about that

I want to explain absence suspension

So, do you know what?

Why don't I get you to explain what absence suspension is?

Because you're the separation anxiety expert too

Yeah, so absence suspension is a very important part

Of working with our dogs with separation anxiety related behaviors

Because that is the thing that is making them panic

So that means that we have to stop leaving them alone

For longer than they can handle

And for most people

When they reach out to a separation anxiety specialist

It's usually pretty zero, right?

Some dogs have worked up to a certain amount of duration

Maybe like two minutes or something like that

But not very long

Usually before they start to panic

So really you have to stop putting your dog in that situation

That's causing them to panic

If you want them to start feeling safe about it

Yeah, I'm glad that you did that explanation

Because people are used to the way I explain it

And it's always nice to hear the same concept

Explained in a slightly different way

So thank you for that

Yeah, so of course when we start working with dogs with separation anxiety

We're all about, yes, okay

So now you need to stop leaving your dog

And here's how you might do it

And I know it's going to be awful

But we go try and encourage people

And make them feel like it's doable

And then we're suggesting all these things

When you have a dog that doesn't get on with dogs

Or people are looking at us going

How am I going to do that with my dog?

You're crazy, that's not happening

So I'm really curious

What did you do with your dog?

Because you had to do this

You had to leave the house at some point

So how did you eventually manage to get her to be okay

With at least some other situation?

Yeah, so I did a lot of things wrong

It was before I'd read a book

And I was trying things

Jen, we're either winning or we're learning

Right

You didn't get it wrong, you were learning

Absolutely, I tried situational meds for her

And on the third time she was like

I know what this means

And she would immediately start to panic

As soon as she started to feel kind of ugly

So basically I just

I was lucky in that

I could go down to basically

Working almost not at all

In order to suspend absences

While my partner was working full time

And then I would wait for him to get home

Before I would go out and take clients

So I was very fortunate

It still was not easy, absolutely

But yeah, that's how I got through it

It was sheer luck, honestly

Well and it's interesting because I know that

Sometimes people will say

A dog with separation anxiety

Would be so much better with

This family setup or this household setup

But as I remind people, even though

In your situation you were able to flex things

You still have medical appointments

You still want to go out to dinner every now and again

With your other half, not doing shifts

You go to dinner, they go to dinner

So there's always times where

It just comes to the point where you want to do stuff together

You can't 24-7 manage

One being at home and the other being out all the time, right?

Right, and for us being in a new town

Like a new city, we wanted to try and make friends

But we couldn't have friends over

And we couldn't leave

So it was, yeah

It was like that huge double-edged sword

So yeah, it was tough

But then presumably you

I know you said you did a lot of things wrong

Well actually, yeah, share some of those

Because I always think it's helpful for people to know that

Even brilliant trainers like you

You know, sometimes way back when you didn't know

When you weren't necessarily the brilliant trainers that you are now

Because we all start somewhere

I think it's comforting for people to know that

We're not perfect either

We definitely make mistakes

Or not mistakes, we're learning

Learning experiences, absolutely

And it doesn't feel like that at the time

What were a couple of things you look back on and go

I wish I'd done that differently

Well, I tried the whole music thing

So I tried turning on music and then leaving

And it was really nice

Soothing through the dog's ear

I read the book

And I was like, okay, this is going to help

Nope, it became a departure cue

She learned that that meant I was leaving

So then I started

Then I tried the meds, which didn't help

Then I started trying to work on creating her

With me doing small, tiny, tiny, tiny

Absences out into the hallway or whatnot

And I had to start there because we had four dogs at the time

And one of them had seizures

So it was very complicated

How we had to have them all separated just in case

So I didn't have the option of not having her confined in some way

That didn't work

As soon as I would close the door

She would start to get upset

And this is a dog who got so upset by the crate

That on the day we were moving from our former home to our new one

She broke three of her teeth getting out of the crate

So I knew that I could not push that at all

Because she is definitely a dog that would do anything

Including severely harming herself

So then I tried a gate across the door

That didn't work

And then I almost gave up

I was like, I don't know what to do

And this was in the age where working from home was really not a thing

Just not a thing, no, exactly

I remember

No, I was just going to say that you were reeling off all the things

And I was there too, all the things

And I look back now and I'm horrified at all the things I tried

Why did I ever think they would work?

Well, because people would tell us that they worked

10, 12 years ago

Well, people still recommend some of these things

But yeah, we didn't know any different, right?

Some things got to work eventually, surely

Yeah, yeah

And before she had separation anxiety

When she just had the, I say just, like it's little

When she was just, I don't know

Had the fear and aggression responses from people

I was really resistant to meds

Any sort of formal meds

So I tried like every herbal supplement thing possible

Like things that would take like a month of you sprinkling on their food

And I finally broke down and was like

Apparently this is my problem thing

I need to get over it and get my dog some help

So that helped me in the long run with the separation anxiety

Because we did get to a point where she was good for about like an hour

And then she couldn't get past that stage

So we had to kind of start experimenting with medications

To add to her current, her daily dosage of anti-anxiety meds

To help us get past that hump

And that would have been much longer

If I hadn't already been open to meds

And seen what a benefit they were

Yeah, like me

We get there eventually, just kind of in hindsight

Wish it hadn't taken so long

And now we're both massive advocates

Because we've been through that process

We want to save people the time

One of the things that comes up

Well, it just comes up all the time

With people I work with

Is when they have a dog who

Doesn't want to be with them

Or daycare is no longer an option

When they have a dog like that

They want to work on those issues

I mean, they want to work on those issues

Regardless of whether their dog's got separation anxiety

They want a dog who can be sociable

With other people and other dogs

But now they've got this big bucket of problems

Of a dog who doesn't like a bunch of stuff

And then also doesn't like being alone

And there's only limited time and limited headspace

I would say, in any week

To do this kind of training

Especially when you've got all the other things

Going on with your dog

So how do you think people should

Prioritise their training time?

All these things that they potentially

Would want to work on

Separation anxiety, a dog who can't be left

With anybody else

So how do they decide where to invest

Their training hours?

Yeah, so I always

Have a conversation with my clients

To say, you know

Where are they now?

Do they have anybody

That their dog does feel comfortable with?

Many people have a friend

Or family members

They're like, oh yeah, my dog frequently

Goes to my mom's house

Or my dog loves my friend

So-and-so because she met her

When I first adopted her

So some people do have

Some avenues there

So I'll say, okay

How close are they?

Would you be able

Or comfortable approaching them

About this with the caveat

That this is not forever

And I will, I say

Pay them in wine or chocolate

Do something

As a thank you

Try to figure out where

Basically how their village

Is set up

Do they have enough resources there

To start separation anxiety training?

If they do

Then I say, okay, now you've got the option

Of starting with your separation

Anxiety training

Or if you want to grow that village

Or you feel that it is

Something that is impacting your life

Daily, the fear

Aggression or reactivity

Then we could start there too

So I will say

You've got options here

But we have to figure out

Management for one of them

Yes, exactly

Because you can't

Both of them require

Management

And depending

One of the things I say to people

What's affecting your life most?

And I do

Try to talk people back

From trying to do all the things

I don't know about you, but I just find that

It gets completely overwhelming then

If they're trying to do

Work on all of the issues all of the time

Yep, yep, absolutely

I'm big into prioritizing

And saying, hey

I know you want to do it all, but let's do this

For X amount of duration

Like a month

And if you're starting to feel like, hey

I've got my head wrapped around

How to help my dog feel better

About this person I'm adding to our village

Now I'm feeling confident

Like I can take on

The separation anxiety training

On top of, while I'm continuing

To get my dog comfortable with this person

I really encourage them to do that

Just because it is a lot

For anybody

I mean, your separation anxiety

Training is, you know, daily

Yes

We do encourage, of course, days off, but

It doesn't seem like it's going to be

That much until you start doing it

You're like, oh my god

I have to do my session

Yeah

And I always say, you know what

It's fine

Not to love doing separation anxiety training

And then somebody will always pop up and say

Actually, I really do like it

But, you know, I remind people, it's fine

Rarely do we get up in the morning and say

I can't wait to do my debauch training today

It's not like tricks

It's not like going to agility with your dog

You know, it's

It's worthy, but it's not necessarily the most

Fun training we will ever do with our dogs

And that's okay, it's okay that people

Don't love it, but just do it because they know

It's the right thing to do

I'm always conscious of not overwhelming them with

You know, more stuff, although

Can we talk a little bit about

You know, we could do a whole other podcast series

Quite frankly on how we help fearful dogs

Overcome other issues, but

When you're talking about

Say, for example, with trying to get

A dog to love more people

Or love that person

That they're kind of okay with a bit more

We use food, right

So it's not like separation anxiety training where we're like

No, no food, no food

But it's good to suggest that people use food, aren't you

Yes, absolutely

And really fabulous food

So I was

No store-bought treat is going to be enough

We want, I was thinking

My first one, spam

I use spam all the time

Cheese too, I didn't know that

I love spam

So much easier to cut off than hot dogs

Of course, yeah

So, like, that usually

People are like, whoa, really

And we want to keep it special

So, you know, most people have already used peanut butter

Or something like that with their dog

But we want to really up the ante

So that when they

First see this person

He's like, whoo, I get spam

Spam rains from the sky

When I see these people I'm not familiar with

I kind of want to see them more

So that's what

We're looking for, is to change

How our dogs feel

But we don't, just like

With separation anxiety we have to go at their pace

So

We most definitely will use food

You're not going to change how a dog feels

About something with

Pats on the head or happy talk

And it's not rushing up

To people and saying

Hey, this person's great, you're going to get spam

So there's still the same element

Of desensitization in there as well

Which is the going at the dog's pace

Isn't it?

Exactly, yeah

There's so many things to take into consideration

With a person

That people might not think about at first

Because they will commonly reach out to me

And say, hey, my dog's

Randomly reactive

I have no idea what they're responding to

Why are they like some people and not others?

Why can we walk past one person

And we're on the same side of the sidewalk

And like a foot away

Where there's a person across the street

And my dog is barking

And lunging at them

So we really have to break it down

So that they can start to understand

The different things that our dogs are noticing

Our body language

How fast that person is

Coming towards them

What exactly are they doing

Angle of approach

Are they coming head on versus from the side

There's so many different things

There that our dogs are observing

And saying, hey, is this person going to try

And say hi to me or not

Am I going to be put in this situation again

Or that

So really helping them to learn body language

It's such a good point as well

Because even when we spot those trends

And we discover that

A person across the road

For whatever reason

Is more threatening than a person just passing by

Could happen

And people go, I don't understand

I don't understand why that is

It seems to be the case

It's definitely a trend here

A dog has decided it doesn't like that thing

But it likes this thing

And so what we're going to do, we're going to work on the thing it doesn't like

It doesn't always add up to us

When we work these things out

We go, oh wow, it seems to be when he

Oh wow, why would he be like that

He's decided that's scary for him

Exactly

Scary for them, and that's all that matters

Yeah, yeah

We can cry ourselves in knots

Because it doesn't seem logical

The example that we often talk about

People change garments, right

So they put hats on or they'll put a different coat on

Same person with a hat to us

Is the same person

But to some dogs, completely different beast

Man with a hat, completely different to the man without a hat

Yeah

They just look at the world differently from us

Yeah, and they're so smart

I had one client whose dog

Would know when people

Were looking at their phone

So if they were looking at their phone

And walking past

It was totally fine

If they didn't have their phone

That was a bit more of an uh-oh

Like I hope they don't make eye contact

We have to get distance, ASAP

All kinds of things

But if that phone was up, the dog was like

Cool, I got it

Oh wow, that is so fascinating

Because your dog presumably is assuming

Or has learned

That when people have a phone

They don't interact with the dog

The strange dog

The more you have the phone, the more likely to come over and say

I'm great with dogs

I'm so good with dogs

In fact

It's funny you say that because

One of my dogs reacts to people who say things like that

They react to the

I'm good with dogs people

Uh-huh

Oh no

In their face

The people are right in the dog's face

Yeah, I'm really good with dogs

Yeah, so prioritizing

Yeah, I love that you say that

So prioritize because it's going to

You want to think through how is this going to impact

You know, most impact my life

Where

And sometimes it's a practical thing isn't it

Where can I

Maybe I'm not ready to do separation anxiety training yet

Because I don't know

My other half's not on board

But he is on board for doing some of the fear training

So maybe we'll start there too

So there's logistics, there's practicality

But prioritizing is the key, right

Rather than trying to do all the things

Yeah, absolutely

Can we just talk a bit more about your

Concept of building

A village

We talk about it quite a bit with separation anxiety

But it's interesting that you also talk about that

For dogs who are

Kind of a bit scared of the world

So tell me a bit more about building a village for these dogs

So I always think of it like

Our dogs have

That are fearful of people

They have, or heck, even other dogs

I mean, we build their village too

Is that

They don't have a whole lot of

Associations

Or in their good bucket

I guess with people

And if we're trying to

Introduce lots of new people

Constantly to our dog

I can feel like it just gets to be too much

You know, even if they're doing the exact

Same thing on the protocol that I've given them

Like, you know, do this, do that

Have your helper do this

There's so many other potential things that could be going on

That that person could be doing

Or that your dog's not comfortable with

That I'm just like, hey, let's start with one person

We're going to focus on that person

And I always encourage people

Find somebody

Who takes direction well

Is going to be comfortable with your dog

That is willing

To do this more than once

You know, so

We really, like, get kind of picky with who we pick

So that it can be the easiest

Possible setup for our dog

Because for most people, the goal is

To be able to get somebody

Inside their house

That they can hang out with

And that they can relax with

So if we can say

Hey, we're going to add

We're going to add Victoria

To your village

She's a great one, she's my training partner

And she

She knows

You know, all the stuff that people do

That could possibly make

A dog uncomfortable

So she is really great at being

Like the second stranger

That we've added to the village of a dog

Because I will have given

Clients a lot of guidance

On body language, how and why

I'm making decisions with

If I'm going to push on to another step or not

And then I'll say, okay

Victoria's going to be

You guys are going to practice your skill set

It's weird asking a friend

Hey, can you stand up for three seconds

And then sit down again

Can you do this, and blah blah

So they get good at coaching

Their helpers by being able to coach

Somebody

Who, if the scenario

Was maybe like, I don't think

Their dog's ready for that

She'll tell them

Hey, why would

You make that decision

And maybe we should do this

Or maybe we should do that

And she also is very good

At keeping

An eye on the dog's body

Language

At the same time in coaching them

And that takes practice because

The dog can't feel like you're staring

At them and being all weird

I tell you what

Hats off to, I say this a lot

Because I only work with separation

Anxiety, you know, we've got

The luxury, as you know

When you're working separation anxiety cases

We've got the luxury of video

We've got the luxury of replays

We've got the luxury of coaching while not being in the room

With the person and the dog

And I always think, how do you guys

Do it when you've got, you know

Dog and person

And you're trying to coach

And watch body language and you're not

Watching it on video, it's all live

And like, whoa, it's amazing how you do it

Yeah

Well, honestly

I could take one positive thing

Out of the

Pandemic, which obviously was

Horrible, was that

It got people more familiar with

Technology and

I now no longer

Have to walk into a house

Clueless, I mean

People would fill out their intake forms

You know, and I can read a lot

From the intake forms, but

I don't have to do as much

Training on the fly

While watching body language

And talking to people and explaining things

I can do all of that

Set up initially

Online, where we go over

What's going on, what have they observed

Things like

Going over body language, watching videos

Together, letting them know

What exactly to expect when I get there

And what to do

So, that just

It's, oh, I love it

It's just so much easier on me

And on the

Guardians, because they're able to start

Practicing some stuff right away

And they can feel more confident and not so nervous

Having someone come into their home

And also

We say this all the time

When people ask us why we do separation anxiety

Remotely, well

We don't need to be an added

Unnatural factor, unnatural

Parameter in the room with the dog

And for a dog who's

Scared of people

That can be a big deal when the trainer

Comes round too, so I guess what you're saying is

You can manage that

Much more effectively because you can have a conversation

Beforehand and then maybe you can

Chat about whether

Now is even the right time for you to come round

Maybe they do some work

First and then you come round

Or I guess at least when you come round

Everybody knows what to expect

You've got a drill, you go into that

So I love that, do you find that you're doing

More of that, kind of setting up beforehand

Before you go round?

Yeah, I actually made it mandatory

I loved it so much, I'm just like

This is just the way it is now

I like it, I just feel

I just feel much better

About this situation too

Because I have

Knock on wood, always

Been safe, nothing bad has happened

But there are some

Circumstances where you feel a little

Unnerved and yeah

I prefer to not have those

Happen in my life

And it's really old school as well, isn't it?

To think that we can't help a fearful dog

Without seeing it panicking

Reacting, going over threshold

We don't want to be part of the problem

So we don't need to go into a house

And prompt a dog into a fearful reaction

So that we can

Work with that dog, we don't need that

Information, do we?

And I also feel that

Using technology straight off the bat

Common technology

That most people are used to using by now

It also opens up

So that

They are also

More willing to do things

Such as take videos and send them to me

Between our sessions

That used to be a little difficult

Even though we all have phones

That we're constantly using

To take photos and videos

But taking photos or videos of them training

With their dog seemed to be difficult

But it's not anymore

And it's just so wonderful

Being able to see them in action

Because there's so many times

Where I can just watch the video

Take 10 minutes

And record another little video

That says, hey, this is what I'm observing

With your dog's body language

Your timing mechanics were a little bit

Too fast there, let's do this

And change it up, and boom

Rather than them having to invest

In another full hour session with me

It was 10 minutes

So I want to help people

Help themselves

As much as I can

Which probably is not a good business model

But I want them to succeed

It is like separation anxiety

In that there's a lot of repetition required

A lot of repeating

Repeat, repeat, repeat

So you can't

You can't do that

Because no dog would ever

Get enough of the

Right exposure

Over the frequency of that

I just have to throw into the mix as well

The method that Jen's talking about

We both went to the Academy for Dog Trainers

So we both learned from the best

How to deal with fearful and aggressive dogs

And I've been using this

Counter-conditioning for years

With my dog Tex

And many years ago he was a dog

That wasn't comfortable with strangers

He's now a dog that I

Happily and readily leave

With house sitters

Who he's met once

In fact, a couple of years ago

We had a house sitter

She was a trainer friend

So I felt really secure with that

But he'd never met her

But I still felt really comfortable

With her opening the door

Calling his name

And him going, yay!

I love it when strange people come into the house

And it always rains amazing treats

Because the first thing I say to anybody coming into the house

Is just, just give him it all

He doesn't have to do anything

You're just going to be the person

You're going to be the treat dispenser

Just go for it

And people always give tiny, tiny little bits

I'm like, no, no, no, go crazy!

I wanted to say empty

Come back to a slightly fatter dog

And then you get the

You know, we get these treats that come in

Beast sticks, like 10 centimetre sticks

And some people literally take my word

And I come back and he's had a bag of those a day

I'm like, okay, fine, no wonder he loves you

But that's okay

Rather than

But it's transformational

And now when he sees strange people in the street

In fact, the first thing he does

Is he looks at me and goes, hang on a minute

Hang on, I get a treat when I see these people

What are you doing, lady?

It's magical when it works

It's magical, isn't it?

Yeah, absolutely

I was just going to say

It's one of the reasons

Why I focus on what I do

Mary Lou

Who was the one who had separation anxiety

And had the fear of strangers

It was such a struggle

But once I found

The Academy for Dog Trainers

And truly learned

How dogs learn

It was a game changer

Absolute game changer

And I was just like, wow

We can help

These people like me and Mary Lou

And I just couldn't wait to start

Helping other people

And it's just so important

Actually understanding

How dogs learn

There's so much stuff out there

That's just opinion

Based off of

Myth after myth after myth

But if you don't know how they learn

And are able to apply it

You're not going to get anywhere

And apply it correctly as well

Because, you know, again

As with separation anxiety training

We often hear, well, I tried that, it didn't work

Trainers might say

No, that doesn't work

Because I've tried that

With my clients and it doesn't work

Well, yeah, but have you?

So that's one of the things

That I know that when people

Hopefully when they start working with us

They say, yeah, you know what, you gave it your best shot

But here's what you could do differently

That's going to be the thing

That's going to help you

So there's doing it and there's doing it right

And I'm not trying to sound like

Oh, we're so wise

And we know it all

But there is that factor

You have to do these things right

That process we talk about where a dog sees something

And then amazing spam happens

I love that

There's more to it than I've just described

Your coaching is just invaluable

In that situation

Absolutely

You can't get them close enough

It has to be done properly

Like you said

We're not trying to say

Hey, we know it all

But we know our foundations

Rock solid, man

Those are drilled into us

And there's a reason for it

We use them every day

Yeah, it becomes such a habit

So

Mary Lou

My dog Tex, who didn't have separation anxiety

But I say he's pretty much got all the other things

He also has multiple issues

One thing that comes up a lot

My clients ask me

Frequently is

Do you think these are correlated?

So do you think that Mary Lou

Had separation anxiety because

She was anxious about other things

So one triggered the other

And I'm not expecting you to answer

Just for Mary Lou

But I just wonder if you have any thoughts on

Are these things correlated?

Dogs get separation anxiety

And they might be fearful of

Men with hats

But it doesn't necessarily mean if your dog's scared of men with hats

They'll get separation anxiety

So what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah

Not for one second thought that it was

Related for her

And I guess part of me

Was the reason why right away

Being a younger in school

Trainer at that time was

I knew how kind of

Sensitive or tightly wound she was

In general about life

So it wasn't just

Strangers, it would be like the smoke detector

Battery would beep and

She would become upset

A hot mess hiding in the bathroom

So

I don't think that they were related

At all

And she also

I was managing her stress

Like a helicopter mom

Like crazy

So she wasn't going through

Stressful situations on the regular

Once I figured it out

Yeah

I mean there are commonalities

With our dogs that have

Separation anxiety

Routine changes

Are a big one

We also seem to be

Finding that a lot of it seems to be

Genetically related

But I don't

It's not a slippery slope that

If your dog is

Uncomfortable with one thing then they're uncomfortable

With another, you're just waiting for the

Shoe to drop on the next one

I don't believe

That they're connected like that

I think the main thing

Is

Making sure that our dogs

Aren't daily being put

Into stressful

Or anxious situations

I feel like that

Can lead, kind of compound

Itself onto

Increased behaviour issues

As well as health issues

Yeah

Well that's a real biggie isn't it

The impact of ongoing stress

On health is really well

Documented for people now

So we're pretty

I think it's a pretty reasonable

Conclusion to say that

Dogs must be affected in a very similar way

So yeah, that whole thing about

Let's do what we can to

Reduce the fear and the stress

And anxiety in their world

That's going to be good for whatever behaviour problem

You're dealing with, it just makes sense

Yeah and I do wonder about

My dog Tex and all his things

I think, like you say, some of them

Have some commonalities

Like maybe a startle thing

Or a surprise thing

And then some of them are just like

He's not lucky and he

Doesn't like this and he doesn't like that

But they're not necessarily related

And then also, even if they were

We're not going to do anything differently

Yep, exactly

We're still going to address the same

Yeah, exactly

We can spend a lot of time

Thinking about the whys and the wherefores

If that changes how we do things

That matters

If it doesn't change how we do things

Let's just get on with what we know

Start helping them with relief

And the guardians with relief, obviously

As soon as possible

Absolutely

And so, loving this conversation

But yeah, let's finish with some

If that's okay

Some final tips and advice

For guardians dealing with this kind of

Duality of problems

So my final advice would be

To really

As we were talking earlier

Create that priority list

What is going to give

Me the most relief

Right now so that I can continue

To help my dog

It's very easy to feel

Overwhelmed and if you

Try and do it all at once

Your head's going to be spinning

And then you're going to feel like you're not

Making progress anywhere

So, prioritize

Heck, make a checklist

I'm a big list person

As I'm sure

Many people who know me well will tell you

That I, you know

I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this first

And then once I do this and I get that done

To my satisfaction, I'm going to move on to the next thing

So, really

Prioritizing so that you

Can have the energy

To continue

To help your dog

Oh, that's fantastic

Yeah, that's a really good positive

Note to end on

And so, Jennifer

People want to reach out to you

To work with you, either for separation

Anxiety or for

Fear-based issues

That we might umbrella call reactivity

But, you know, we know much more

How can they get in touch with you?

Yeah, so

Our website is

Wag the Dog and Company

All spelled out

And we'll work with anybody

On any different type of case, but we do

Specifically specialize in fear, anxiety

And aggression

And to that, I know that

Not everybody is able to

Afford private

One-on-one training

And something that both Victoria and I feel deeply about

So, we created a

Membership

That's actually a monthly membership

Called the Introverted Dog

We felt that that most

Encompassed all the possible

Issues that dogs that are fearful

Reactive or aggressive

Towards people, and it could be unfamiliar

And familiar people

It's a monthly

Membership where we take on

Different topics every week

Or we build on topics

So you can learn how

To help your dog

And slowly

Yeah, I love it, that sounds great

And particularly if people from my membership

Are listening, they'll be so

On board for that, because I think people recognize

That, you know, this

You just need that ongoing support

It's really hard to do this on your own

And you don't have to do it on your own

So, what I'm going to do is

I will link to your website, and we'll link to the

Introverted Dog as well in the show notes

And you're also pretty

You do some pretty cool stuff on

Instagram, so we'll link to your Instagram

And other social accounts, so if people want to reach out

To Jen and team, then

Feel free to check her out in the show notes

Super, thank you

Thank you so much for your time today

This has just been, I've loved it

And I know it's going to be so invaluable

To listeners, so thank you, thank you

Thank you for reaching out

And I hope that your listeners

Find this helpful for next steps

On how they can help their fearful dog

They absolutely will, thank you again

Thank you so much for listening

To this episode of the Be Right Back

Separation Anxiety Podcast

If you want to find out more

About how I can help you further

Head over to julienaysmith.com

Meanwhile, if you

Enjoyed listening today, I would

Love it if you would head over to

Wherever you listen to your podcast

And consider rating my show

Thanks so much

Good luck with that training, and bye for now

Be Right Back